Ramblings of a Restless Mind

[00:00:00] Speaker 4: you gotta see, if you see so many bad guys, it takes seeing good guys.

[00:00:05] Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

[00:00:06] Speaker 4: Right? Oh, I see that. Yeah. And so his, his bravery, but specifically, like you said, it was his daughter taking ownership of her trauma.

[00:00:15] Speaker 6: And it took years. Mm-hmm.

[00:00:15] Speaker 4: The bravery.

[00:00:16] Speaker 6: It took years.

[00:00:17] Speaker 4: The bravery.

[00:00:18] Speaker 6: Yes.

[00:00:19] Speaker 4: But- She has no concept that that impacted me in that way.

[00:00:25] Speaker 6: Right. Mm-hmm.

[00:00:25] Speaker 4: Right?

[00:00:26] Speaker 6: I think she hopes that, I honestly

[00:00:27] Speaker 4: do. Yeah, I do. I do. Yes. That jingle just never gets old.

Nope.

[00:00:38] Speaker: It doesn't.

[00:00:39] Speaker 4: It's a bop.

[00:00:39] Speaker: Every time.

[00:00:40] Speaker 4: It's a

[00:00:40] Speaker: bop. You guys don't see, I don't think, no, you don't show this on camera, but like every time it plays before we start recording, like we're just, we're kind of over here just doing a jig. Um, what's up, Ramblers? Welcome back to another episode of Ramblings of a Restless Mind.

I am one of your co-hosts. Jen, thank you for coming back. Or if this is your first time, welcome. Hi. Get ready to ramble with us. Okay. And this is...

[00:01:00] Speaker 4: Deja.

[00:01:03] Speaker: It'll never... That also will never get old. Um, so we are so excited for- Yes ... our guest today. Yes. Um, last episode, if you haven't listened to it, go back and listen to it and enjoy that journey, 'cause we went all over the place.

Mm-hmm. But we had a lot to catch up on. Um, and so we're so happy to have a guest with us this week that... Joe, you're always our guest, but-

[00:01:23] Speaker 3: I'm around.

[00:01:24] Speaker: We, we- Yeah ... we love you, too.

[00:01:25] Speaker 3: My camera angle, you guys can't see it. It's ridiculous for this show. I just look like I'm in a digital kudzu forest.

[00:01:34] Speaker: Well, y- we all are, actually- Yeah

in the studio here. Um, so our guest today, I met her, I don't even know how many years ago it was. But I was a little doe-eyed young ambassador for a wonderful local organization in Wake County here called... or Wake County, which is North Carolina, um, called, uh, SafeChild, which stands for Stop Abuse For Every Child.

And I just remember seeing Melanie. She does have a name. I do. And just in awe, um- Yeah ... one, of what she does, which we'll get into here in a little bit. Um, but two, just being such a young professional in this space and the work that she does professionally, but then was also... is, is still also doing, um, with the organization and being like, "Man, I..."

And then here I am. I s- somehow, years later, got beamed up to the big board, as I say.

[00:02:24] Speaker 4: So proud of you, man.

[00:02:26] Speaker: Currently serving- Yeah ... as president-elect, which still just blows my mind. That's awesome. I don't... Uh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I know. Oh. It is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Congrats. I, thank you. I s- it still doesn't seem real, and I'm just terrified as well as honored, like, and humbled and just all the wonderful, great feelings.

And, uh, just don't

[00:02:42] Speaker 6: want to let anybody down. There's a lot of big shoes to step into.

[00:02:44] Speaker: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome. Um, so... But it's been great, and it's, it's, SafeChild's gone through a lot of change, uh, in this last year plus, um, with new leadership and various roles and everything. But a steadfast in that has been you.

[00:02:59] Speaker 6: Oh, 'cause I'm old.

[00:03:03] Speaker: Because you're wonderful and wise. That's right.

[00:03:05] Speaker 6: Wise. I like better than old. That's

[00:03:07] Speaker: right. Um, so I am... Well, first of all, how long have you been involved with SafeChild?

[00:03:11] Speaker 6: So, I've been at the DA's office almost 28 years, and so I've been involved with SafeChild for probably 27 and a half of those.

[00:03:18] Speaker 4: I don't think we ever actually introduced her. No.

[00:03:20] Speaker: I got Melanie- ... out there. Um, Melanie Chiquita.

[00:03:26] Speaker 6: We're killing it, guys. Yes. The summer break was hard.

[00:03:27] Speaker: It was. Yeah. Um, no.

[00:03:29] Speaker 4: So sorry. I'm, I'm just so excited. I know. Um, I'm so excited. I always think

[00:03:32] Speaker: of Kevin Hart when he says, "I'm so excited." He's good. Um, okay. So I've, I'm just gonna read your bio that- Okay

you were so kind to provide to us so that I don't flub anything. Okay. While Melanie is not a native of to Wake County- We're just gonna say Raleigh. Yeah. Uh, sh- you have lived here for the last 49 years. Oh. Which means you're time traveling because you're young. No, I know. Um, you've been an assistant district attorney for almost 28 years, and you're currently the team leader for the Special Victims Unit.

Bless you. It's not just a TV show, guys. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It actually happens in the real world. Um- You

[00:04:04] Speaker 6: don't hear the bump, bump when- Exa- ... we go into court, though. Maybe

[00:04:06] Speaker: mentally before you step into the- Yes.

[00:04:08] Speaker 6: We have mental challenges. Tensions.

[00:04:10] Speaker: Yeah. Um, you- I always think this is such a badass fact about you. Um, you were a volunteer firefighter for 10 years, and you're- Nice

currently the president of the Western Wake Fire Rescue Board of Directors, and you serve on the Wake County Fire Commission.

[00:04:23] Speaker 6: Yes. I love it. Wow. It's a, I learned a lot about myself when you can start a chainsaw on a roof, right?

[00:04:28] Speaker: I- You know, I work in the roofing industry- Yeah ... but I don't think that we've ever had to start a chainsaw on a roof.

I hope

[00:04:33] Speaker 6: you never have to, right.

[00:04:34] Speaker: No, me either. Me either. Um, you have two rescue dogs, which are your children. Love it. Same. Yeah. We are paw-rents, too. Love. Thanks. Love. Um, and you are a proud Tar Heel, even though you're not a fan of Bill Belichick.

[00:04:46] Speaker 6: Well, after today's another announcement, it has just been re- I didn't even- Oh

uh, Steve Belichick resigned. Well. I guess that cocaine problem apparently caught up with him. You know, it

[00:04:54] Speaker: just gets in the way.

[00:04:55] Speaker 6: It does. I mean, does this- Stay off drugs,

[00:04:56] Speaker: kids.

[00:04:56] Speaker 6: This 20-plus million dollar experiment has been really a shit show. Yes. You told me I could say whatever I want on this show. Yes, you

[00:05:04] Speaker 4: can.

Yes. For sure.

[00:05:05] Speaker 6: Yes. Yeah.

[00:05:05] Speaker 4: There's

[00:05:05] Speaker: no filter here.

[00:05:06] Speaker 6: Ooh.

[00:05:07] Speaker 4: Yes. Yeah. That seems like an exorbitant loss.

[00:05:08] Speaker 6: Yeah. So. So, yeah.

[00:05:10] Speaker 4: Whoo.

[00:05:10] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:05:11] Speaker 6: Okay. He was supposed to inherit the program, and now he's gone.

[00:05:13] Speaker: Yep.

[00:05:14] Speaker 6: Yeah.

[00:05:15] Speaker: Now it's just Bill and his sleeveless sweaters, sweatshirts. Ah, the old

[00:05:17] Speaker 4: booger sugar, guys.

[00:05:19] Speaker: Strikes

[00:05:20] Speaker 4: again.

[00:05:21] Speaker 6: Apparently.

[00:05:23] Speaker: Just couldn't, couldn't give it up for... Well, I, I- Yeah ... don't even know. Whatever.

[00:05:26] Speaker 6: Well, sorry.

[00:05:27] Speaker: Fiasco.

[00:05:28] Speaker 4: Sorry, which team are you guys? Yeah.

[00:05:28] Speaker 6: Yeah. Well,

[00:05:29] Speaker: they're,

[00:05:29] Speaker 6: they're 2 and 0, so I guess-

[00:05:30] Speaker: Yeah ...

[00:05:30] Speaker 6: that's at least a positive.

[00:05:31] Speaker: The team's all right. Yeah. Like, it's just, just the leadership's a little questionable.

[00:05:35] Speaker 4: Yeah. But that's a lot of money. Like, it could go to other things for the school. Like, come on. Yeah. Indeed. Like, yeah.

[00:05:41] Speaker: Has there been any talk of, like, next-

[00:05:44] Speaker 6: I don't know.

[00:05:44] Speaker: Well, and you guys know we time travel in these episodes, so by the time this comes out- Yeah. Yes ... there will be something. Yes. Some sort of-

[00:05:49] Speaker 6: 1,000% something.

[00:05:50] Speaker 4: In October-

[00:05:51] Speaker: Yes ...

[00:05:51] Speaker 4: there could.

[00:05:52] Speaker: Best month of the year, I say.

[00:05:54] Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh, you ... Season

[00:05:55] Speaker: of my birth. The month of

[00:05:56] Speaker 4: my

[00:05:57] Speaker: birth. Yes. Um, okay. So there was a lot in there. Um, and, but you working in the DA's office, um, f- in Special Victims Unit was your, your tie to then originally getting involved- Yes ... with Save Child. Yes.

So, um- First of all, thank you-

[00:06:15] Speaker 6: Oh, I love the kids. It's-

[00:06:17] Speaker: For the work that you

[00:06:18] Speaker 6: do ... it's easy to get up and do it, yeah.

[00:06:19] Speaker: Um, at this, every year the organization has, uh, an annual fundraising gala, gala. How are you supposed to... I still don't know how you're supposed to say ga-

[00:06:26] Speaker 6: I say

[00:06:27] Speaker: gala. I say gala too. But other people say gala.

People say gala. I, I don't know. Deja says- Tomato tomato ... it's

[00:06:31] Speaker 4: weird, like, kind of like nasally and kind of, you know, highfalutin. Gala.

[00:06:37] Speaker 6: That's why I'm

a

[00:06:38] Speaker 6: gala girl.

[00:06:38] Speaker 4: Right?

[00:06:38] Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like gala- Kinda just like- ... is a little like,

[00:06:40] Speaker 4: gala ... it's very

[00:06:41] Speaker: Southern.

[00:06:41] Speaker 4: Hold on. Yeah.

[00:06:42] Speaker: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:42] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[00:06:43] Speaker: So anyway. See? Mm-hmm. Um- I

[00:06:46] Speaker 6: think I'm getting the hang of this.

[00:06:47] Speaker: Yeah. The, uh, keynote speaker at this, this most recent, um, uh, gala, gala, um,

[00:06:56] Speaker 6: Function.

[00:06:56] Speaker: Function. Yes. There you go. Event. Highfalutin function. Soirée. Yes, Deja was in intent- when, was in attendance as well. Yes. It was beautiful. Yes. Um, is also a current board member, and he told his family story of his daughter going through Safe Child Services.

Yep. And, um, you being a part of their whole journey with that. And that is, we hope to have him on one day. Actually, he and I were just talking about this recently. But- He's phenomenal ... um, he, he absolutely discusses it as a journey. It's not something that happens in the moment. It's not something that happens, like, to you, ends, whatever.

It is an ongoing journey. There are many, you know, little tick marks on that timeline.

[00:07:35] Speaker 6: Well, and- and sexual abuse in a family setting affects the entire family. It's not just one- Mm ... person that's affected. Mm-hmm. And, and, and their story is just so, um... it's such a, a testament to that.

[00:07:47] Speaker: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.

And his... and, and if you're curious, I mean, there is video on Safe Child's, plug for Safe Child, on their social media. There is, uh, um, a video of some of his keynote speakers. Mm. Or speech that was extremely moving. And he actually wants to... He's looking for opportunities, um, as he was explaining to me recently, to get out and share that message, uh, even more so.

So-

[00:08:08] Speaker 6: And I think it's important because, you know, we tell children, "It's your time to tell, and you can decide what to do." And his daughter really decided that it was time- Mm-hmm ... for everyone to know about this horrific experience so that she and he and they together, their family, could really share that experience for other people who've gone through.

You know, if you think one in four children are sexually assaulted. Mm.

[00:08:30] Speaker: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:31] Speaker 6: It's just, you know, she... I think it was, it was his daughter that said, "Let's do this," right?

[00:08:35] Speaker: Yeah. I, I mean, just stop and think about that stat for a second.

[00:08:38] Speaker 4: The, I mean, yeah.

[00:08:39] Speaker: One in four kids. Yep. Yes. That means- Yep.

[00:08:42] Speaker 6: One, yeah, one in four people.

[00:08:43] Speaker: People.

[00:08:44] Speaker 6: But typically children.

[00:08:44] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:08:44] Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:45] Speaker: Um, you know, so, and, and I've, in different avenues, like, uh, when it was like October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month, and I stood up and was talking about the stats in that. And I was like, "Look at..." I was like, "So look around the room and look at the females in this room."

Mm-hmm. "And think about that stat." And I was like, "And I'll stand up here today and, as nervous as I am to say this, like, have been a victim of abuse." You know what I mean? Yeah. So, like- Same The, the idea that it's not happening in my home or in my neighborhood or whatever. There are 100 counties in Wake County, and it's...

I mean, I'm sorry, in North Carolina, and it's happening in every single county.

[00:09:20] Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's not in a particular zip code. Nope. It's in you're affluent, you're Black, you're white- Right ... you're Hispanic, you're legal, you're not legal, all of the things. Yep. It's happening everywhere. Absolutely.

[00:09:30] Speaker 4: Well, I just really, really appreciated just having his demographic stand up.

Uh, we do have a problem where we don't logically acknowledge the high rate of violence in, that occurs in white men. And too often we have other demographics that are pushed to the forefront, and we have this propaganda idea of what violence is and who propagates that violence. Mm-hmm. Right? Um, and so being a white person coming out of white violence, and I as a person who didn't get justice, um, to see a white man acknowledging white crime of a man that was his own blood-

[00:10:10] Speaker 6: Affluent

[00:10:10] Speaker 4: that- Very

[00:10:11] Speaker 6: affluent.

[00:10:11] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm ... that was so deeply impacting to me. It hel- it was healing for me-

[00:10:16] Speaker 6: Okay ...

[00:10:16] Speaker 4: to be there and, and see that because it, it just was a, "Oh, there are..." 'Cause you got, you gotta see, if you see so many bad guys, it takes seeing good guys.

[00:10:28] Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:29] Speaker 4: Right? Oh, I see that. Yeah. And so his, his bravery, but specifically, like you said, it was his daughter taking ownership of her trauma.

[00:10:38] Speaker 6: And it took years. Mm-hmm.

[00:10:38] Speaker 4: The bravery.

[00:10:39] Speaker 6: It took years.

[00:10:40] Speaker 4: The bravery.

[00:10:41] Speaker 6: Yes.

[00:10:41] Speaker 4: But- She has no concept that that impacted me in that way.

[00:10:48] Speaker 6: Right. Mm-hmm.

[00:10:48] Speaker 4: Right?

[00:10:49] Speaker 6: I think she hopes that, I honestly

[00:10:50] Speaker 4: do. Yeah, I do. I do. Yes. But I just, I just hope that other people realize that those acts of bravery-

[00:10:56] Speaker 6: Right.

[00:10:56] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm ... right, even as small as they can be, they, they really- They have ripple effects

can have. Absolutely.

[00:11:00] Speaker 6: Well, that's why you asked how I could do this for 28 years, is just working with families like that and- Yeah ... watching them help other people through this process. I wish that we could eradicate it. I wish we could say, you know, stop abuse for every child and until- Like,

[00:11:13] Speaker 4: there's not a need for Safe Child.

Or at least have a Safe Child- Right, right ... in every county.

[00:11:16] Speaker 6: Yes. Yes.

[00:11:17] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:11:17] Speaker 4: That's the dream to catch, 'cause it's not going to stop.

[00:11:20] Speaker 6: No.

[00:11:21] Speaker 4: But we have to have the systems that are going to be there to provide that safe place. Absolutely. Yep. And wow, does Safe Child do an exceptional job. It's, it's an-

[00:11:30] Speaker 6: I-

incredible organization.

[00:11:32] Speaker 4: They're the model. Yes. Top-notch. Do- I'm just gonna cl- clap for you. I'm doing it again.

[00:11:37] Speaker: Jo, there's a clap button. Where is it? I

[00:11:38] Speaker 4: didn't know you

[00:11:38] Speaker 6: have a clap

[00:11:39] Speaker 4: button. I'm just

[00:11:39] Speaker: so- Yeah ... I'm just

[00:11:40] Speaker 4: so

[00:11:40] Speaker: impressed. He's gotta, he's gotta press all the buttons- Yeah ... to find it first. There it is.

Yay. There it is. I agree. Go,

[00:11:44] Speaker 4: Safe Child. Yes.

[00:11:46] Speaker: Um, so how, taking a few steps back, um, w- uh, so coming out of law school, were you just like, "I wanna be-

[00:11:54] Speaker 6: Yes ... in a, in

[00:11:54] Speaker: a DA's office?"

[00:11:54] Speaker 6: Well,

[00:11:55] Speaker: I thought I wanted, I thought- Or... When I

[00:11:56] Speaker 6: went to law school, I thought I wanted to do international law. I minored in German, which was the most- Oh,

[00:12:01] Speaker: cool

[00:12:01] Speaker 6: ridiculous choice of my whole life, 'cause had I

[00:12:03] Speaker: minored- Hey, Oktoberfest, though.

[00:12:04] Speaker 6: I know, but- Right? You know? ... had, had I minored in Spanish, I could use it every day at work. Very. Right. Yeah, yeah. Not, not one of my smartest decisions, and it's a long story, and I won't bore anyone with that. But I knew I wanted to work with children a long time ago, and my mom said, "You don't need to be a teacher.

You, you can do so much more," which is no disrespect to teachers. Mm-hmm. They need to be paid more, and they need to be re- Absolutely ... they need to be risen up, and they li-

[00:12:27] Speaker 4: We need a Department of Education.

[00:12:31] Speaker 6: Gosh, that seems so crazy Isn't it horrible? Yeah, I'm just saying. Like it is,

[00:12:34] Speaker 4: yeah

[00:12:35] Speaker 6: But, um, that's where I knew I could help, and I wanted to...

And I like to advocate, I like to argue, and so that was what I wanted to do. And so when I came to the DA's office, you know, the typical path is starting off in traffic court and- Mm-hmm ... doing traffic tickets. And pr- fairly soon, I went into the domestic violence courtroom, where I was working, uh, against violence against, um, family, family violence.

Mm-hmm. And that's where I really started working with Safe Child in 1999, where we would get, um, families connected with parenting groups or, um, abuse groups and, um, and those sorts of things. Um, and, and trying to sort of make the family whole, which is what Safe Child is about, even in a time of need.

Because you can see a family that's frustrated and a mom or a dad that lashes out because they don't have the tools to be able to adequately parent that child. And so that was where I really started with Safe Child and some of their other programs. And then I went, um, through domestic violence to our misdemeanor appeals, which is boring in North Carolina, 'cause anytime you get convicted of a misdemeanor you can appeal it to a jury trial, so I'll skip over that part.

Not that it's not important, but, um, and then I started doing felonies. And from 2001 until now, I've been working with children. But in 2005, we restructured the office to have a special victims unit. And so s- for I guess 21 years, um, um, I was a founding member of that, and now head the organization. So I've seen that.

And you know, before Safe Child took on the advocacy center, which is obviously one of my dearest, greatest gifts and, and something I'm very proud to help create- Mm-hmm ... we were doing interviews of children who had, um- w- th- who were professionals had concerns for maltreatment, whether it's physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, and we did them at WakeMed, which is fine, the interviews.

But it wasn't a child-friendly place. Sure. Mm-hmm. And so, um, my old boss, Colin Willoughby, and I, um, made a pitch to Safe Child's board of directors at that time, way before I was there, about we did a lot of research about do we wanna have it housed in a hospital? Do we wanna have it housed in a police department?

And when we toured different facilities, we decided that a nonprofit was the, our ideal.

[00:14:44] Speaker 4: I mean, as a little kid you imagine how terrifying an ER or a police station- Right ... is. Yeah. Exactly. Right? Like- It's so sterile- Yeah ... and it's cold and- Or the sounds, the noise ... yeah. If you've ever been in an ER- Yes ... it is so loud.

Yes.

[00:14:54] Speaker 6: And that's where we were taking them off to the side room. I mean, similar to, like our SOLIS Center that now does the rape kits for- Mm-hmm ... sexual abuse survivors. The MRA. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, kinda getting stuck in a corner in the ED where sh- you know, uh, shooting victims and all kinds of things are coming in, so.

Or a man

[00:15:11] Speaker: with a cold.

[00:15:11] Speaker 6: Right, right. You know? Yeah, or throwing up or who knows. Yeah, that's right. Right. But we decided- Sorry ... after talking to, um, I guess there's a story there.

[00:15:20] Speaker: Yeah. Oh, no, I just think the, just the overriding, like, when men have colds, they're babies. Oh. Yeah.

[00:15:25] Speaker 6: Um, we, my boss and I made a pitch to Safe Child's board of directors, and at that time Marjorie Minestre was the, uh, executive director.

And, you know, um, Colin said, "Why would there be one in Murphy and in Manio and not here in Wake County, the most- Mm. Mm ... you know, one," at that time we weren't the biggest, now we are. Yeah. Right. Um, and so they really latched onto this, and in 2011, I believe, the advocacy center was opened up, and they've seen 5-plus thousand children- Yeah

for concerns of maltreatment. So it's just, it's been a journey. I've grown in my practice. And that's just Wake County.

[00:16:01] Speaker 4: Yep.

[00:16:01] Speaker 6: We see a couple of kids from out of county- Right Yep ... if the abuse happened here, but that's just Wake County. But

[00:16:06] Speaker 4: I, I don't think the people fully grasp the concept, 'cause I was a foster parent for a long time, right?

Mm. So- God bless you ... the, the statistics on peop- on the number of children just in our county- Yes ... right, I mean, are astronomical. The number of kids that are unfortunately stacked up in office buildings right now. Like, and then you're saying that's 5,000 kids that are going and being abuse helped just in this county.

Yes. So, like, we really, this is a prolific thing going on. Yeah. We are, we are- And not just here, but all over ...

[00:16:36] Speaker 6: we have children sleeping on the floor in our Department of Social Services- Yep, yep ... because there are not enough families for them.

[00:16:40] Speaker 4: Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, so, so all around- Advocacy, right? Yes. So if you're out there and you're, you know, like, you're like, "Oh, this woman's a lib tard," remember, pro-life.

Those are kids. Right. Pro-lives. Yes. Those are kids.

[00:16:53] Speaker: Well-

[00:16:54] Speaker 4: So ...

[00:16:54] Speaker: and, and in hearing that journey and that w- your ro- one, I had no idea that you played such an integral role in- We needed an advocacy center ...

[00:17:01] Speaker 4: I know, it's fascinating.

That's s-

[00:17:02] Speaker: And- Yeah ... then to also, for how much growth you've witnessed with Safe Child and in, w- because the advocacy center, it used to be a, this little, this cute little house. Cute,

[00:17:15] Speaker 6: very cute.

[00:17:16] Speaker: Um, and then right next door to it now, this, this month, will be the, the new Safe Child, uh, not new, but the new building, the new home for Safe Child is two years old.

It's

[00:17:27] Speaker 6: so hard to believe.

[00:17:28] Speaker: And it's a 20,000 square foot facility.

[00:17:31] Speaker 4: God, it's a nice building. It is.

[00:17:33] Speaker: And it's beautiful, and it was so meticulously- Yep ... and, and- So well-planned ah, just so well thought out. Intentionally, that's the word I was looking for. Yes. In how it was designed, decorated, set up. Like, there was, I mean, no stone was left unturned- None

in the way that this building was created. And thankfully, one of the architects that was, helped design the build or, or did design the building is now on the board as well. I know. I think that's so great. Yeah. So it's been beautiful. And, um, but the dream was, because we, there, there's two main houses to Safe Child, and, or, or components to Safe Child.

You've got the programming side that, gosh, we could talk, you know, a lot about all the different programs. But I encourage you, if you're curious at all about any of this, to go to safechildnc.org and learn more. Um, and then you've got the child advocacy center side, and- And- ... they were in two separate buildings.

[00:18:24] Speaker 6: Yes, which was very hard for the staff, right?

[00:18:26] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:18:26] Speaker 6: To feel connected.

[00:18:27] Speaker: Yeah. And, um, so the dream very quickly became to have everything under one roof, and that dream became a reality because of-

[00:18:34] Speaker 4: Uniting the dream team.

[00:18:35] Speaker 6: Yes.

[00:18:35] Speaker: Yes. Bringing them all

[00:18:36] Speaker 4: together.

[00:18:36] Speaker: I mean, the dedication of- Yeah ... the patrons in the community, the folks- Well-

affiliated with Safe Child, like-

[00:18:41] Speaker 6: I remember being on the board, and I was like, "There's no way we can raise $12 million." And it was not hard, 'cause everyone can get behind trying to help children- Who's

[00:18:48] Speaker: gonna say no? ...

[00:18:49] Speaker 6: to a child.

[00:18:49] Speaker: To that, right.

[00:18:50] Speaker 6: Right.

[00:18:50] Speaker: Um-

[00:18:51] Speaker 4: To an abused child. Yes.

[00:18:52] Speaker 6: Well, and even not, uh, uh, not even always abused children, because that's the bulk of it, but, like, families that are just struggling- Yes

that don't know how to parent because they're- Mm-hmm ... young or they're inexperienced or they're financially- I- ... stressed, all

[00:19:05] Speaker 4: the things.

[00:19:05] Speaker 6: Again-

[00:19:05] Speaker 4: Yeah ... with fostering-

[00:19:06] Speaker 6: Yes ...

[00:19:07] Speaker 4: I, so much of it... Sorry, I was like caught. There's cords and things. Caught on my cord. Yeah. Um, you know, I, I'm an advocate for a woman's right to choose, and unfortunately, a lot of our community members, there is pressures for whatever re- reason, religion, whatnot.

Not every woman is prepared to have a baby. Babies cost a lot of money. They take a lot of time. They're stressful. They're, exactly. They- Right ... put your hormones out of whack. And, and, and so I, I really desperately, I need some of these people who cast so much heinous judgment, they demand that every baby lives, but then they cast all this judgment on women- And they-

for needing help

[00:19:45] Speaker 6: And they don't fund the foster care system.

[00:19:46] Speaker 4: Thank you. Mm. So I just-

[00:19:48] Speaker 6: I'm trying not to be polit- political 'cause I work- I know ... for a political

[00:19:52] Speaker 4: agency. I know But- But I, I just, I see that. I've seen it firsthand. I've, because as a foster parent, it, part of your job is to work with the parents to help them do exactly that.

The, the whole point is to get the kids back in the home. Right. It's to rebuild the family. It's to help get them skills, and you put the family back together, right? That's the

[00:20:10] Speaker: goal,

[00:20:10] Speaker 4: absolutely. And you sign 'em back. So the, the fact that there's, yeah, you're, like, it should be. It should be easy to go and go, "Well, hey, guys."

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's lift up the, those with the least that need the most help, right? Yes. Like, it should, you know?

[00:20:24] Speaker 5: Yeah.

[00:20:24] Speaker 6: I was terrified, and they're like, "Just ask. People would give." And, uh, it was-

[00:20:27] Speaker: Yeah ...

[00:20:28] Speaker 6: and now we have that beautiful facility that so many people can use.

[00:20:31] Speaker 4: Yep.

[00:20:31] Speaker: And, um,

[00:20:33] Speaker 4: w- one of the- And going to the Gala Gala.

And then, you know-

[00:20:35] Speaker 6: Gala

[00:20:36] Speaker 4: Gala Actually, and then being surrounded- Yeah ... and talking with those people. And of all, ooh, the spectrums of, you know, the help and dedication. Right. And it's really an inspiring story of how a nonprofit can become a success. Like, Safe Child is, is a really good model.

[00:20:56] Speaker: It, a- a- and well, and I will s- and I think that's, in joining the board, I was, because it's such a well-oiled machine, like- Yes

the, the mission is never lost. Every board meeting, there's a mission moment to bring you back to, because we're not in the building doing the heroic work that the- Mm-hmm ... the state, st- Safe Child staff and team, like that they do. And so I love that moment, but it was intimidating joining that board, 'cause I was like, "Oh, God, I gotta have my shit together."

Like, I can't, you know? And now it's kinda like these are also humans and people. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um, but it's, there was such a, the reason why, aside from the fact that living, having one entity operating in two separate buildings, um, that was one part of why the building was a necessity, but the other part, too, was because of the timeframe from the time that an allegation was made.

Yes. Um- We've

[00:21:42] Speaker 6: tripled the capacity.

[00:21:43] Speaker: Yes. The, it was, like, six weeks at one point.

[00:21:46] Speaker 6: It could be. It could be.

[00:21:47] Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From time of an allegation to, like, a family being seen, the child being, c- because there's special... We could sit here and talk about Safe Child, like, nonstop, and to be honest, teaser for next episode.

We're talking all about this advocacy center- Okay, that- ... 'cause that one part- Yes. Yes ... she, the director of said advocacy center- Mm-hmm ... uh, who's a rock star in her own right as well, will be here to join us, so we're, we're doing all things, uh, Safe Child. Okay,

[00:22:08] Speaker 4: yeah, 'cause I, I just, I get, I'm a bandwagon- Yeah.

jumper on this one, guys. I can just, you know, I'm looking forward to the fundraising. Let's

[00:22:15] Speaker: do it. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, and to that end, if you're interested in learning more about Safe Child-

[00:22:20] Speaker 4: Yes ...

[00:22:21] Speaker: and you feel compelled to give There is a swift little button on the website that I mentioned earlier, safechildnc.org, that you can do that.

You can learn so much more. Yep. Reach out to me directly via podcast stuff. I'd be happy. Yep. Clearly I could talk about it all day long. It's something I'm, I'm very passionate about. In one of two previous professional lives ago, uh, I worked with at-risk youth and, um, uh, c- Department of Juvenile Justice and, and all that jazz, and taught at ECU with all that kind of stuff.

And so Pathways Building with C and At-Risk Youth was my jam for the longest time. So once I switched careers but then got connected with Save Child, it was a no-brainer. And I really don't know what I'm gonna do whenever I have to roll off the board. And that's why I'm still struggling. So I'm looking

[00:22:58] Speaker 6: for advice.

I'm still struggling. I'm

[00:22:59] Speaker 4: like, out of here. I know. I know too. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:00] Speaker 6: I mean, I still work with them professionally, but I'd like to get back in too, so. Yeah.

[00:24:01] Speaker 4: I'm just gonna go ahead and take this conversation another direction.

[00:24:04] Speaker 5: Okay.

[00:24:05] Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah, yeah. So you seem like a badass.

[00:24:09] Speaker 6: I don't

[00:24:10] Speaker 4: know. Thank you. And I vibe with that.

[00:24:11] Speaker 6: Appreciate

[00:24:12] Speaker 4: that. Um, 'cause again, let's go back to the firefighter part. Yeah.

[00:24:15] Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. So silly. Definitely. Definitely gotta-

[00:24:17] Speaker 4: No, 'cause you, I'm a run into-

[00:24:20] Speaker 6: Yes ...

[00:24:20] Speaker 4: right, the danger kind of person. You seem like the same, like I'm gonna go run into-

[00:24:25] Speaker 6: I

[00:24:25] Speaker 4: do ... and to advocate, to fight- Yeah

to whatever that spectrum is. Again, chainsawing that fallen tree to save the, you know. Yeah. So please, what, what-

[00:24:36] Speaker 6: So it was a- Can you return to that? It was a lark. My sister said, "Let's go to this meeting," and I was like, "Okay, whatever. Firefighting, sounds cool." We went there and they were like ex- they were cutting, um, cars open with like all of the extraction tools- Oh, yeah

and all the power tools. And I was like, "Oh, this is amazing." And so we both joined Western Wake. Um, there are very few agencies or departments in Wake County now that have volunteers because a lot of them have become, you know, just paid. But it is one, it's over near the fairgrounds and so it has a lot of NC State students.

Mm-hmm. And I was much younger then, so I had a lot more energy- ... from 2000 to 2010. But- Happens

[00:25:14] Speaker 4: to the best of us.

[00:25:14] Speaker 6: Yes, right. But, um, it was, I really learned about myself, a lot of things about myself that I didn't think I could do. I learned to drive a firetruck. I could pump the water out of the truck. Oh, that's so cool.

It was amazing.

[00:25:24] Speaker 4: That's amazing.

[00:25:25] Speaker 6: And then, you know, I decided that I was getting older and I, so now went on the board and now I'm the board president, and really like to advocate. At the DA's office I do a lot of the arson cases- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... as a result sort of knowing that. And now on the Fire Commission, which is really interesting, about helping plan the budgets and helping figure out things there.

So it's just been a really... I l- I would say I learned more about myself in doing this than really becoming a firefighter, so. That's

[00:25:50] Speaker: awesome.

[00:25:50] Speaker 6: Yeah.

[00:25:50] Speaker: Like, I just have this visual of just you just running, I don't know, just th- th-

[00:25:55] Speaker 4: I would

[00:25:56] Speaker 6: kill bro. I just, I just wanna see

[00:25:57] Speaker 4: more

[00:25:58] Speaker 6: female firefighters. Like, if you still are, do you just wear a different uniform?

No. Like- As a small caveat, Western Wake doesn't have a lot of homes in its district, so I didn't go into many burning houses. I want to tell you it's, I've- But nevertheless ... I mean, it's cool, but- You

[00:26:07] Speaker 5: were volunteering to do so. Yes.

[00:26:08] Speaker 6: Yes. I was about to say, but you

[00:26:09] Speaker 5: were

[00:26:09] Speaker 6: trained and

[00:26:09] Speaker: ready

[00:26:10] Speaker 6: if needed. Yes. Yes.

Trained and ready. Yes. And I did do a couple, but yeah, it was, um- So- It was good for me ...

[00:26:14] Speaker: we have, one, we have a couple of questions we have to ask you that you did provide us answers to, and we have a listener voicemail. Oh, yes. Yes. But just before we dive into those, I do have to ask you this because someone else that's in your office, um, I had the, uh, wonderful opportunity to speak with recently and- Someone posed a question to her of like, "In all of the work that you do," and I think your time as volunteer firefighter in addition to what you have done and continue to do, um, with Special Victims Unit and everything else W- how do you deal for a life...

I don't know. Is that what the kids are saying these deal, these days? Because, and, and I loved- How do you not

[00:26:51] Speaker 4: go insane?

[00:26:52] Speaker: I loved her response because- I'm curious to

[00:26:55] Speaker 6: hear what she said ...

[00:26:56] Speaker: she said- 'Cause I know what

[00:26:57] Speaker 6: you're talking about.

[00:26:57] Speaker: Yes, you do. Um, because we also had, uh, a detective that works very closely with Safe Child as well that was there.

And so they kind of tag-teamed this, and she was very real in that she was like, "Anybody who is in this line of work and law enforcement, legal industry, whatever, and tries to tell you that they don't experience secondary trauma from this kind of work is lying or in denial because it absolutely is." And to be honest, she never really answered the question about what she does, um, to help decompress.

But she c- could, because she was very real in that, like, she was like, "The legal industry and the law enforcement industry are also very behind times for mental health support- Mm-hmm ... for its, its staff." Um, and that kind of led into a real very, very real moment about law enforcement who all of, like, the cyber crimes and, like, things like that, like, they're the ones, like, child porn cases, like- Oh, my God

they're the ones that are reviewing- Yeah ... the videos, the photos. And in addition, when you're talking about cases, and she talked about a crazy trial, 'cause most of those, from what I understand, kind of plea out. Uh, but there was one that actually went to jury trial, and it was the only time she's ever had an actual jury member vomit, like- Yeah.

Yeah. So I, I wanna ask you the same question. What do you do to take care of yourself to decompress from everything that you take on on a daily basis?

[00:28:14] Speaker 6: I, I agree with Katie. It's hard. If you stay in this line of work as long as you do, we've had several, um, amazing DAs in our unit who have children and are like, "I just can't do this anymore."

I, I don't have kids, so it's, I think, easier when you don't, 'cause you can't associate this broken 10-week-old- You don't put that kid

[00:28:33] Speaker: in

[00:28:33] Speaker 6: that- ... right, to my child. Like, we had a DA just this past week have a baby, and I, I wonder now if it's more difficult for her. And so I don't... There's no magic answer. I will tell you that the, the movement within the National District Attorneys Association and specifically with the North Carolina Conference of District Attorneys, they are having a wellness coordinator- Mm

to help because they recognize that it is vicarious trauma, and it is secondary trauma. And I don't do a great job of it.

[00:29:02] Speaker 4: come to hot yoga with us?

[00:29:04] Speaker 6: Yeah, right? So I also, I'm a cycling instructor, and so that- Okay, cool, cool

that's what I kinda get out and do it. And I love my dogs. And I- Yes. You know, it's, um, w- as a prosecutor, we're not allowed to cry in court, right? Mm-hmm. We can't show emotion, and so that's very hard to cut off. I just tried a case, a, a murder case, with two parents who, um, the 10-week-old had 17 broken ribs.

Mm-hmm.

[00:29:27] Speaker: And they're so-

[00:29:28] Speaker 6: And the, eh- ... pliable. Right. Like, like, th- you, they bend. Not everybody's meant to be parents. Yeah. And so it's hard. It's very hard- For someone who's done. And I think the nice thing is that national associations, state associations are recognizing that. Mm-hmm. You know, watching, and you used the word child porn, 'cause that's what we all do, but we've changed the mantra.

Instead of calling it that, we call it child sexual abuse images, 'cause that's what it is. Mm. Oh. Yeah, yeah. You know, you talk about porn, and people watch porn. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, I like- That's a good point. I'm

[00:29:58] Speaker: glad

[00:29:58] Speaker 6: you- No, no. And I, I- It's a really good point ... but I, but people use that word. Yep.

We, you know, years ago we would charge someone with that, and you would say our, our statute is second degree sexual exploitation of a minor, which no one knows what that means. It just

[00:30:13] Speaker 4: diminishes-

[00:30:14] Speaker 6: Right ...

[00:30:14] Speaker 4: the violence

[00:30:14] Speaker 6: of it. So what, what I started to ask those detectives to do is, "I would like you to write a description of what you saw," and th- and then judges started saying, "It's not just a picture.

It's a five year old blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so it's, it's, um, people think it's ju- you know, it's not harmful, but at some point that child in that photo was being raped, molested, sodom- whatever the right word is, and you can't take away from that. Mm-hmm. Right. And so, yeah, the detectives that have to look at that, you know, we are very fortunate in Wake County to have a lot of agencies who have specially trained, um, detectives that do that.

So I can say, "I trust that you know what this is." And so I don't have to look at it until we go to trial. And it is, it's, it's devastating. Yeah. And jurors, I mean, don't like to see it, and most cases don't go to trial. That's exactly right. But this juror in my trial, we had to give her a trash can. Yeah. It was, it was...

A- no one should have to go through that.

[00:31:14] Speaker: And I, I, I'm, I'm really, really glad that you told me the new terminology. Yes. Because that's what I wa- wanna use. Because I think porn, we have a normalcy to-

[00:31:23] Speaker 6: Right ... that word.

[00:31:24] Speaker 4: Also, porn then is just indicative of the image itself. It doesn't extrapolate what you're talking about.

What happened. What that is. And when

[00:31:31] Speaker 6: people

[00:31:31] Speaker 4: call it

[00:31:31] Speaker 6: kiddie porn, I lose my mind.

[00:31:33] Speaker 4: Oh, no. Oh, no. I lose my mind. 'Cause then that makes it okay. Right.

[00:31:36] Speaker 6: It's-

[00:31:36] Speaker 4: Yep. That language makes it okay. That

[00:31:38] Speaker 6: makes me wanna throw up in a

[00:31:39] Speaker 4: trash can. That's patriarchal bullshit.

[00:31:41] Speaker: Well-

[00:31:42] Speaker 6: You can say that, but yeah.

[00:31:43] Speaker 4: I

[00:31:43] Speaker: can. Yeah. I would also, 'cause I think about, um, folks in, even not pr- Trauma is trauma.

Grief is grief. I'm not here to compare or anything like that. But working in, you know, when I worked in family law for so many years, or I think about folks that I've known, like working trauma surgeons, things like that, right? Like, I think there's also a bit, you talk about, like, you, you can't cry in a hearing.

Yeah. Right? You know? Mm-hmm. Um, there has to be, and I don't mean this in a negative light, in, in an actual practical, a disassociation. Right? Because if, if every trauma surgeon for every trauma that came through the ER broke down and was like, "Oh my God, look at this," you know- Yeah ... then they wouldn't be the saving lives like they do- Right.

Sure ... um, a, a lot of the time, hopefully. Um, and so I'm sure there's that component, too. I don't wanna say the numbness, like, that you don't get numb to it, but you have a, you compartmentalize- You have to ... to a certain extent,

[00:32:34] Speaker 6: right? To be able to do your job- Yes ... I think you have to. Yeah. I think that's a good way- Yeah

to phrase it. And, and some people can't do that, and that's fine.

[00:32:39] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:32:40] Speaker 6: That's absolutely fine. There's

[00:32:41] Speaker: no weakness

[00:32:42] Speaker 6: there. We tell jurors- Yeah ... when they come in, you know- Because of the numbers, and we know one out of four children, people have been sexually abused, I look at 12 people, potential jurors, and three of them-

[00:32:54] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm

[00:32:55] Speaker 6: possibly have. And the, the heart-wrenching thing is the people that come in, and you can see their faces change, and you know that's one- Mm ... who's never told anyone. No. And then, you know, we have to say, "Is that gonna impair your ability to be fair?" And they fight so hard to say no, but then you're cr- I mean, it's just- Mm-hmm

you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's so pervasive. And, um, you know, I've t- now I've taken us off onto your ramblings, but - Oh,

[00:33:23] Speaker: no. That's what

[00:33:24] Speaker 6: we're here for. So we're like, but- Please. But, you know, like, a lot of our job as special victims prosecutors is educating jurors that it happens in all jur- istictions.

And, you know, one of the main things that we have to get behind is you're gonna hear from this kid. You're not gonna hear any DNA. You're not gonna see any physical sexual abuse findings, which the law doesn't require. Mm-hmm. Would you require more of the state to kind of educate them on the eyewitness testimony of a child?

In the case we were talking about earlier, that's all it was, right?

[00:33:52] Speaker: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:52] Speaker 6: Yep. And very infrequently, because I believe all sex offenders are narcissists, they don't usually admit. Yep. And so we have to say to them, "You're gonna hear from a kid," and that's the evidence, essentially.

[00:34:03] Speaker: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:04] Speaker 6: And so, you know, it's, um...

I don't even know what your question was now. I really- How

[00:34:08] Speaker: you take care of yourself. Yeah. But w-

[00:34:09] Speaker 6: you know, we just- That

[00:34:10] Speaker 4: was that. Now we webbed on. I, I would like to say that, like, I, um, 'cause in my own experience, I've had to see that, um, that the kid isn't in the court. Like, they can do, like, the, the TV is what you see, like.

So in

[00:34:23] Speaker 6: 2009, I was also, not to brag on myself, but-

[00:34:26] Speaker 4: You should. Absolutely

[00:34:26] Speaker 6: brag. No, no. I will brag for you. Well, we, I had a five-year-old that I put on the stand who looked at me, and, you know, you practice, and s- little kids, you have to practice a whole lot. And, like, we practiced for five days straight, and the first day I said, "I'm just gonna ask you questions.

You don't have to answer." Then, uh, we, she would whisper in my ear, and then finally we got it. And then we got into court, and it was her grandfather. And she looked at me, and she was sitting on the stand, and there's all the jurors and Grandpa, and she said, "Miss Melanie, he's smiling at me. I can't answer the que-"

[00:34:53] Speaker: A five-year-old

[00:34:54] Speaker 6: you know, five. And so, as a result of that, 37 states at that time had had remote testimony, and I was like, "Well, God darn it, we are gonna have it."

[00:35:03] Speaker: Yep.

[00:35:04] Speaker 6: So there is an opportunity to do that now. You have to show a lot of things like serious emotional distress. But with a five-year-old, I mean, uh, so, uh, uh, so we now have- It's

[00:35:12] Speaker 4: intimidating

[00:35:13] Speaker 6: but it was, it wasn't intimidating. You

[00:35:14] Speaker 4: ask a, a woman to face down- Right ... a rapist, and you ask a five-year-old- Five-year-old ... to face down their grandfather. Come on, man. He's smiling. That's- He has a smile on his face. Oh, yeah.

Well, as a-

[00:35:22] Speaker 6: I was like, "

[00:35:23] Speaker: No

[00:35:23] Speaker 6: further

[00:35:23] Speaker: questions." ... court in general, I don't care if you're going for a speeding ticket- It's scary ... or anything. Yeah. It's intimidating. Yeah. And the other thing about Safe Child, this is why, one, I wish there wasn't a need, but there is, so here we are. Um, 'cause I've had people that I've shared about Safe Child, whether they're local, right- Mm-hmm

um, or not, and, but they, like, and people in my life, like, that have said, "I wish I would've had a Safe Child."

[00:35:43] Speaker 6: Yes.

[00:35:43] Speaker: I can't imagine how different my life- You've had board members that have

[00:35:45] Speaker 6: given that same

[00:35:46] Speaker: testimony. Yes. Yeah. And, um, it, it, that's crazy to me, but o- one of the other things that Safe Child is so intentional about, and on the advocacy center side, and next episode I'm sure we'll talk about it even more.

But the, the, the interview, the for- the specially trained forensic interviews for a child so they only have to tell the story once.

[00:36:04] Speaker 4: Yes. Yes.

[00:36:05] Speaker: And you have the other team, the MDT, the multi- multidisciplinary team that can look at that video or of their, or you know, that that interview can go back and say, "Hey, is there anything specific?"

But they have a special way of interviewing that's a conversation. Yes. It's not, the kid knows the camera's there. Like, there's no hidden things. But a child isn't re-traumatized by telling a story or a bunch of inconsistencies, inconsistencies by having to tell a story multiple times. It's just so, it's unfortunate that it's necessary, but I'm glad that Safe Child has the process that it has.

Yes. And I know that there are other CACs, you know, in the world, or the country at least, that, that exist that way, too. Um, but there, i- it's just-

[00:36:42] Speaker 4: But we need more.

[00:36:43] Speaker: We, yes. Yes. Yeah. A- and earlier it was mentioned, this, and the last thing I'll say about it, and then we're gonna get to- Yes ... w- we'll lighten- Yes.

We'll, we'll add some levity to the conversation. Yeah. But, um, the, um, you were talking about other counties, right? Yeah. And it's becoming increasingly more, um- popular, I don't think popular's not the right word, but it's happening more in that our, our neighboring counties, every county that doesn't have a child advocacy center, that's what we're talking about when we say CAC, um, is assigned to a place.

And, um, other counties that are neighboring to us, they get sent to us and referred to us even though we're not their assigned because of services that Safe Child- Mm-hmm ... provides. And Safe Child's gonna do everything they can to help- Sure ... that child. You know, recently there was, like, a human trafficking case that came through Durham, and they called Durham and Durham was like, "We don't have anything like that"- Oh

and referred to Safe Child, and Safe Child was like, "Absolutely, bring 'em up." At

[00:37:37] Speaker 4: minimum in our major city centers-

[00:37:39] Speaker: Exactly ... for crying

[00:37:39] Speaker 4: out loud.

[00:37:40] Speaker: Um, and it was a pretty big, like... Anyway, so I, it, I hate that it's necessary, but it is necessary. So we are where we are. It is what it is. Mm-hmm. Yep. And, and so I hope that whether it's Safe Child's ability to expand into multiple counties-

[00:37:56] Speaker 4: Mm

[00:37:57] Speaker: or however that looks, I know there are so many nuances, you know, around all of that, but it is absolutely a need.

[00:38:03] Speaker 4: Yeah. Good goodness.

[00:38:04] Speaker: Um, so with that Womp, womp. I know, right? Uh, but it's real. Yep. Yes. And, and I know that that does bring d- like, when you're at somewhere and you're like, "Oh, right," I'm like, "Oh, I'm here on behalf of Safe Child, which stands for stop-" Womp,

[00:38:17] Speaker 4: womp.

[00:38:17] Speaker: There. Yes. Yeah. Much better. There we go. There it is. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, but it, it may feel like such a dark and heavy topic because it is, but it needs so much light shone on it.

[00:38:26] Speaker 6: Well, and the, and the families that are serviced by the advocacy center or any of the programs- The goal is to come out better on the other end.

Yes. Yes. Right? And so that the prosecution is better, if that's the advocacy center or if it's a parenting program or, you know, uh, any of the new Welcome Baby- Mm-hmm ... or any of the other things they do. That these families, like you talked about, the goal is reunification- Yeah ... and structuring. Now, sexual abuse is a whole different story, but- Yes.

Mm-hmm. To, to try and get that there. Yeah. But, right, and also to hold h- account, uh, hold offenders accountable. Yeah. Which is why the model of a child going through one real comprehensive interview is the, the gold standard no matter what state you're in, probably what country you're in. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that, that minimizes the opportunity for inconsistencies, which are not inconsistencies, but if I'm telling a stranger that I trust, I'll probably tell them something more than I would tell a police officer that's wearing a badge who has all of the well intentions, but it's probably a little scary to

[00:39:21] Speaker 4: a kid, right?

Yeah. And also depending culturally- Right ... whether or not you trust that officer. Sure. Yep. Right?

[00:39:26] Speaker: Yep. Yeah. There's- Yeah. There's a whole f- fully Spanish-speaking program at Safe Child- Yes ... which just is- Thank you ... wonderful. Um, and if we can do just every language, why not?

[00:39:36] Speaker 5: Yeah. Yep. Pipe dreams.

[00:39:36] Speaker: Pipe dreams. I love it.

All right. We're gonna ask you these questions that you answered real quick. Oh, gosh. And then we're gonna get to our voicemail, um, 'cause our dear listener who has left this voicemail wants to hear our response and we're gonna, we're gonna do the best we can to s- Yes. Yes ... to, to, uh, stay within our parameters here.

Okay. Is a hot dog a sandwich?

[00:39:55] Speaker 6: I don't like hot dogs, and it's so un-American. And on the 4th of July when I- And it's okay ... when Joey eats all the hot dogs- You're, yeah, just as you are ... it freaks me out. But I think no

[00:40:10] Speaker: Way to be a- Because- ... team

[00:40:11] Speaker 6: Deja answer ... because a sandwich has two parts, like a top and a bottom.

[00:40:15] Speaker 4: Yes, logic.

[00:40:17] Speaker 6: Yes. Yes. I think so.

[00:40:18] Speaker: So- Mm-hmm ... I thought about this. I went back and I pulled the stats for all of our-

[00:40:21] Speaker 6: Uh-huh Okay, so where am I? ...

[00:40:23] Speaker: folks. Oh, you're in the majority. Oh. We've had four yeses. I'm in the yes camp.

[00:40:28] Speaker 6: Okay. 11

[00:40:30] Speaker: nos.

[00:40:31] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:31] Speaker: And five it can be if it wants to be.

[00:40:34] Speaker 6: Oh.

[00:40:34] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[00:40:35] Speaker 6: I, I'm, I'm not a good at- I'm so un-American to say you don't like

[00:40:38] Speaker: I feel like it can be if it wants to be is kind of a scapegoat answer.

[00:40:42] Speaker 4: Yeah.

[00:40:42] Speaker 6: Yeah. That's a- I was like, "That's interesting" ...

[00:40:42] Speaker 4: that's a fence sitter right there.

[00:40:44] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:40:44] Speaker 4: Less said.

[00:40:45] Speaker 6: Yeah. I just wanted to please the host. That's what's happening. Can't be on the

[00:40:47] Speaker 4: sandwich sidelines. That's what's

[00:40:47] Speaker 6: happening.

[00:40:48] Speaker: What? Sandwich sidelines.

[00:40:50] Speaker 4: No.

[00:40:51] Speaker: We've g- we've had some serious, uh, debates over this, though.

I love a good sandwich. Some people- we, we really get into it. Yes. But yeah, I mean- Oh, but

[00:40:56] Speaker 4: yeah, a good sandwich.

[00:40:57] Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:57] Speaker: Oh. I, it, I think it's funny to me that just such a simple question can spark such a debate. I know. But-

[00:41:02] Speaker 6: I know ...

[00:41:02] Speaker: um, all right. Passionate. And from the time that you filled this out to now, and which I know was just recently, but, uh, the last song that got stuck in your head, do you remember what it was?

[00:41:10] Speaker 6: Yes, Reign Me In. I love

[00:41:12] Speaker: it. Such a good song. I can't stop listening to it. Reign Me In, Sam Fender and Olivia Dean. Ugh.

[00:41:15] Speaker 6: And when he says tinnitus- Ugh ... I just get so excited. I just, I don't, I don't know what it is. I just, I can't stop. I listen to it on repeat. I cannot stop. It's

[00:41:23] Speaker: so- Amazing ...

[00:41:23] Speaker 6: and, and in the beginning of my cycling classes, I like to play something when people are, like, getting their bikes set up.

Mm-hmm. And it's just, like, so jazzy, and they're probably like, "Could you please- No ... play a different song?" You're like, "

[00:41:32] Speaker: No, I can't, actually." I,

[00:41:33] Speaker 6: I can't. I literally, I can't stop playing

[00:41:35] Speaker: it. Everything Olivia Dean, to me- Yes ... is catchy. Yes. Right? Like, she's just got such a-

[00:41:39] Speaker 6: Voice ...

[00:41:40] Speaker: vibe.

[00:41:41] Speaker 6: And vibe And the

[00:41:41] Speaker: voice, and like, I love it all.

Yeah. But yes, that

[00:41:43] Speaker 6: song. And when she didn't- I do ... I, she should've been artist, new artist of the year. I just-

[00:41:47] Speaker: Ugh ...

[00:41:48] Speaker 6: I love it. Love

[00:41:48] Speaker: it. Yeah. Such a great song. I wish we could play it without getting sued. Yes. Yeah.

[00:41:52] Speaker 6: And you don't want to hear me- I can play the trombone again ... sing it, then you will turn this off.

Right. La, la, la-da-di-da, la,

[00:41:56] Speaker: la, la Um, okay. All right. So we're gonna, this is gonna be a little succinct in this question, 'cause this could be an entire- Oh my gosh ... whole thing. Yes. But we always like to ask what's the last thing that made you go, "Hmm"?

[00:42:07] Speaker 6: Hmm. This AI's gonna kill us all in 10 years. I- Do, I, and then, like, I get all of, like, the compe- it's so fascinating I have a,

[00:42:18] Speaker 4: I have a, I have a conspiracy theory.

[00:42:20] Speaker: Tinfoil

[00:42:20] Speaker 4: hat. I'm gonna lob it. Did we bring 'em? I'm gonna lob it out there. What if, because, like, uh, theoretically they really haven't advanced much in the last two years. What if all these tech bros have actually come together and are like, "Actually, we're failing, and we have provided this it's gonna be amazing, so what do we do to get them to allow us to slow down?"

We tell 'em it's gonna kill everybody- I don't know what it is ... and that now we need regulation.

[00:42:46] Speaker 6: I really don't know what it is, and then you'll hear this news article- But either/or ... about it's attacked somebody else. Is that happening? Like,

[00:42:53] Speaker 4: I- I- it all needs to be heavily regulated.

[00:42:57] Speaker 6: Well, we're, we're, we're

[00:42:57] Speaker 4: really- Grok is a pedophile.

Grok is a goddamn pedophile, undressing children in images. Ugh. That this is allowed. It's so vile and per- oh, my God, it's disgusting When you first

[00:43:08] Speaker: said it, you said, I thought you said Gronk. Gronk. I was like- I was like, Gronk? ...

[00:43:11] Speaker 6: I can't believe a Buccaneer. No. What? No.

[00:43:12] Speaker 4: No. No football players involved. No.

[00:43:15] Speaker 6: Not

[00:43:15] Speaker 4: that we

[00:43:15] Speaker: know of.

No,

[00:43:16] Speaker 6: I just, I, I don't know, because then you have them saying, "Oh, well, we wanna reign back, but we also wanna make money, and we don't want someone to get ahead of us." And you know regulation is dead in the- No ... our current administration. Of course. Right? Of course. And so I don't, I have no idea what to believe- Which is why-

[00:43:33] Speaker 4: so

[00:43:33] Speaker 6: that's

[00:43:33] Speaker 4: why

[00:43:33] Speaker 6: I'm saying, "Hmm. Hmm ...

[00:43:34] Speaker 4: when they have this unfettered reign, I'm like, "Where's the story that it's all gonna kill us in 10 years?" I mean, I- It seems so, like- ...

[00:43:43] Speaker 6: I use AI to, like, help me write a recommendation for a kid who wants to get into law school. Well, I was literally- Right? Like, I mean,

[00:43:50] Speaker 4: the thing is, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't

[00:43:50] Speaker 6: use it for

[00:43:50] Speaker 4: anything- So for academia- Sure ... for m- medicine, right, science. When I

[00:43:55] Speaker 6: was

[00:43:55] Speaker 4: running for

[00:43:55] Speaker 6: office- Right ... I had to churn out- Right ... some

[00:43:57] Speaker 4: questionnaires.

[00:43:57] Speaker 6: But-

[00:43:57] Speaker 4: Right, like- ... we've got- Yeah ... we've got so many of our elderly population just endlessly fucking confused- Oh, man ... out of their mind- Yeah

with these AI images, and nothing tells them what's real. Hmm. They don't... I mean, talk about creating madness. Yeah. So it,

[00:44:10] Speaker 6: it's

[00:44:11] Speaker 4: the whole- I mean, it's causing civil unrest. Yeah. And, and I, I-

[00:44:14] Speaker 6: But are they creating it? I don't know. Is it legit? Because you know what? There's- I don't know. I know. I, so I- Because there's no, you know what?

Like she said, there's no regulation.

[00:44:21] Speaker 4: Yeah. I was literally- Well, and in our big, big bu- fucking beautiful bill that's about to come out, they have that hole where states won't have the rights to regulate it. That's a written, written up in there.

[00:44:33] Speaker 6: Well, someone sent me a thing today, now they're, again, going way afield, is that the FBI is taking out,

[00:44:38] Speaker 4: re-

Bestiality is okay in

[00:44:39] Speaker 6: the FBI. Yeah. Yeah. I am prosecuting a guy who molested a goat that got 700- Was he trafficked into it?

No, seven- The way Kash said it

700- ... these people ... like Facebook posts, and you're gonna talk about that so he can become an FBI? My- What? Wow.

[00:44:59] Speaker: I should have maybe... That coulda been my new scratching my head. Yeah.

[00:45:02] Speaker 6: Like, what? Well,

[00:45:02] Speaker: but it's all related, but s- yeah. Yeah. Wow.

[00:45:05] Speaker 4: No, there's a whole- Wow ... like people don't realize, like there's like a division in JAG that's for bestiality.

Like there's, the, it, it is a legit thing. What? Like, yeah. The

[00:45:15] Speaker 6: hell?

[00:45:15] Speaker 4: Yeah, 'cause I know, I know a woman who was in JAG, had that, and then went, moved in, and she was at the FBI last I heard. That obviously

[00:45:21] Speaker 6: came up in some sort of conversations. Yeah. Yeah. Good grief.

[00:45:24] Speaker 4: But who came in? I wanna know. I wanna know names.

Who came in to Kash Patel's office and was like, "Listen."

[00:45:31] Speaker 6: Well, we know

[00:45:31] Speaker 4: it's not Jeffrey Epstein. This, this guy- Yeah, 'cause he's dead. Um- Could only hope ... but, but, but who was like, "You know what? So this guy, he fucked a goat." We

[00:45:42] Speaker 6: really like him, yeah. "

[00:45:43] Speaker 4: And, but it, his buddies, they made him do it. And so he, yeah, technically had sex with a goat, but he's not a bad guy.

He should be allowed into the FBI." But he could be peer

[00:45:53] Speaker: pressured? Don't ever let him get

[00:45:54] Speaker 4: interrogated. My point, my point exactly. So you c- yeah, yeah, you're gonna hold your stones and not like- There's no- That's so weird, man. No, there's a reason it was a hard line.

[00:46:02] Speaker 6: There's no explanation for having sex with an animal that makes it okay.

[00:46:07] Speaker 4: No. No. My, my love was the interrogation- I can't even imagine

[00:46:09] Speaker 6: a way that you would save the world by doing that.

[00:46:11] Speaker: No.

[00:46:12] Speaker 4: When he was like- No ... "I have deter-" Yeah, "We determine that either party," and the senator was like, "Wait, so you determined it wasn't the animal?"

[00:46:20] Speaker: Oh my God. Joe, ple- this is where the voicemail needs to happen.

Stop. Joe, stop us. Stop us. We, we have a little bit of

[00:46:26] Speaker 4: voicemail. I died watching that testimony. I didn't realize. I- I got

[00:46:29] Speaker 6: the email today. I was like, "Oh, tech."

[00:46:30] Speaker 4: Fell out. Oh my God. I feel like we were about to solve it, but all

[00:46:33] Speaker 3: right. Okay. We'll

[00:46:33] Speaker: play

[00:46:33] Speaker 3: the voicemail. We are. We were real close.

[00:46:35] Speaker: The next episode.

And again, we don't, we have no idea what this voicemail says.

[00:46:38] Speaker 4: Killing it. So- We're killing it right now ... we'll see. Yeah ... in the FBI, guys.

[00:46:41] Speaker 3: All right, here we go. Killing it. Voicemail. Whoa. Yeah, you gotta do something cool.

[00:46:47] Speaker 4: Thanks, buddy.

[00:46:48] Speaker 2: Okay, so my question is, what is a surprisingly controversial opinion that you'll pretty much defend to the end?

Like, you will die on that hill. Um, like it could be something like, does pineapple belong on pizza, or something like that.

[00:47:01] Speaker: Oh. Oh, okay. All right, so not... Okay, well, I mean, he didn't-

[00:47:05] Speaker 4: Not one of my many

[00:47:07] Speaker: ill-thought of- I, I personally do believe that pineapple belongs on pizza. I do

[00:47:10] Speaker 4: enjoy pineapple

[00:47:11] Speaker: on pizza. Uh, it's delicious in my mind.

Thank you. But I don't know why that's such a controversial topic. Oh, man, something...

[00:47:17] Speaker 4: You

[00:47:17] Speaker: Well, eating food separately. Ooh. Maybe. That's... I went and literally bought a plate on Alcatraz Island so that I could eat my food separately.

[00:47:24] Speaker 4: Yeah. Washing your feet in the shower.

[00:47:27] Speaker: We had

[00:47:28] Speaker 4: a whole podcast episode about it.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a hard line on that. Like, you, you should wash the tip to tip, all the bits.

[00:47:34] Speaker 6: Oh, you mean like you wanna wash like under- Like the bottom of your

[00:47:36] Speaker: feet. Oh, yeah, yeah,

[00:47:36] Speaker 4: yeah. Like wash your- Yeah. Yeah. No, no, 'cause some people don't do that. Some people don't-

[00:47:40] Speaker: We had, so we had a listener text in, 'cause we had- '

[00:47:42] Speaker 6: Cause like, 'cause they think the water runs under it and that's okay?

[00:47:44] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:47:45] Speaker 4: Yes. Okay. Yeah. So just, just a drainage wash.

[00:47:48] Speaker 6: Okay. Just, okay. Just

[00:47:49] Speaker: a little rinse.

[00:47:49] Speaker 4: No exfoliation. Okay. No light scrubbing. Just a...

[00:47:52] Speaker: Okay.

[00:47:53] Speaker 4: Yep. Mm-hmm.

[00:47:54] Speaker: Um...

[00:47:55] Speaker 4: Yeah. Anything, any hill you'll just-

[00:47:57] Speaker: Well, clearly I'm gonna die on the, the hot dog is a sandwich hill.

[00:47:59] Speaker 4: Yeah. I

[00:48:00] Speaker: was gonna say, definitely it's your hotdog stance.

Yeah,

[00:48:01] Speaker 4: yeah. Um...

[00:48:04] Speaker: What else? Joe, you got anything over there?

[00:48:07] Speaker 3: I, I'm not good at this. I feel like this came up once before and I don't have any-

[00:48:09] Speaker: We did have a petty as hell

[00:48:11] Speaker 4: situation. I, I feel like a, a full body compulsion if I'm served a brat without sauerkraut. Like, that those things have, at minimum the sauerkraut, if not also the stone ground mustard.

But I'm just saying like, a, a naked brat- That ain't natural.

[00:48:25] Speaker 6: I think this is different and different, but you cannot- Aggressive ... place a roll of toilet paper on top of the holder with the empty holder. You can't do

[00:48:38] Speaker 4: it. Ooh, how about which way do you turn it?

[00:48:39] Speaker: Oh,

[00:48:39] Speaker 6: it definitely should fall down. Oh, mullet or...

[00:48:40] Speaker: Yes.

[00:48:41] Speaker 6: Yes,

[00:48:41] Speaker: toward you. But it's not behind. It's not the mullet.

[00:48:42] Speaker 6: No, no, to be- Oh ... but, but if you're t-

[00:48:44] Speaker 4: Madness. It- The mullet is madness.

[00:48:46] Speaker 6: You, if, if y- you can take one second to take the cardboard off and put the new roll on, and it's sort of like putting your dish- No ... in the sink- No ... which is right next

[00:48:58] Speaker 4: to the dishwasher No, evidence must be left that they were there.

I, I'm, I'm divorced, so- Okay ... evidence...

[00:49:05] Speaker: Yes. Those are my two things. It's... Yeah. No, those are good. That's good. Ah. I, I think I'm also a crumbs on the counter person. Maybe this is, now I'm just getting into, like, pet peeves around the house. But like- Well, that's '

[00:49:13] Speaker 6: cause I started the pet peeve thing.

[00:49:15] Speaker: Yeah. And those are my thoughts.

I can't stand- No. But I've also realized it's a me thing. Like, I can't expect someone else to always not, or to always see the crumbs, 'cause it's legit. Like, I, that some people just don't. But I'm always gonna wipe that

[00:49:29] Speaker 6: shit off. Clearly our, clearly my problems are cleaning up after yourself.

[00:49:31] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:49:33] Speaker 6: All right.

Jen, you and I are

[00:49:33] Speaker: cleaning up- Being adult. Yes ... after ourselves. Take care of yourself. You're responsible for yourself. I'm

[00:49:37] Speaker 4: a- Yeah ... I'm a hard li- I'm, may- maybe it's... I just realized, I'm like, is this a feet thing? I'm like...

[00:49:42] Speaker: Do you have a feet-

[00:49:43] Speaker 6: Oh, no ...

[00:49:44] Speaker: a clean feet

[00:49:44] Speaker 4: fetish? No, I was like, no, like, you gotta trim your toenails.

[00:49:47] Speaker 6: If

[00:49:48] Speaker 4: y- Oh ... somebody's wearing sandals and they have, like, hooves.

[00:49:50] Speaker 6: They, absolutely, and they, if you're a female, they should also be painted and groomed. Yeah,

[00:49:54] Speaker 4: like, k- it's just- Men don't groom ... self-care, grooming. Yes. Like, just, yeah, but- 'Cause there was the one time we were downtown at a lovely festival. Raleigh, North Carolina has fantastic downtown festivals everyone.

Um, and we're standing there listening, vibing, listening to a band, and my buddy and I look down and we're standing next to a guy who's got Birkenstocks on, and those hooves were dragging- Yeah. Oh ... all the way down. It was filing his nails on the- And so now it's one of those- ... concrete ... long-running joke, like if you're talking to a guy you gotta immediately look at his feet to check to make sure he's not insane.

[00:50:22] Speaker 6: No, I can't. If it's bad I don't wanna see it. Oh.

[00:50:27] Speaker 4: And ain't it right? I,

[00:50:28] Speaker 6: yeah, I don't know. What a-

[00:50:30] Speaker 3: Why would he choose sandals? So is it like, so I got- It was

[00:50:33] Speaker 4: a choice.

[00:50:33] Speaker 3: I always know I gotta trim my dog's nail when I can hear him on the hardwood. Yeah. Right. So tap dancing. So that's, is that your limit? Like if the

[00:50:39] Speaker 4: I, I do make sure my dog's toenails stay off the, uh, yeah. Well, I mean, if there's a man. A

[00:50:44] Speaker 3: human.

[00:50:44] Speaker 4: A human. Yeah. So I'm, I'm saying too, yeah, I'm sure if they, uh- Just- ... don't click as they walk, then I can't, then I can't identify them by their toe sounds.

[00:50:53] Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. And, and if you're in Superior Court in Wake County you don't need to wear open-toed shoes where your toenails are also doing that.

No, ma'am. Oh. Now that we're talking about gross

[00:51:00] Speaker 4: toe stuff. Sometime- I, um, I'm so happy that we, that everything is online now because I used to have, have to go to the courthouse and drop, right, all the pleadings, all the stuff. Yeah. Right? And so you'd see everybody when you're going through the metal detectors, and I'd be like-

[00:51:12] Speaker 6: It's good to wear

[00:51:13] Speaker 4: flip-flops

"You're wearing that to court?"

[00:51:14] Speaker 6: Pajamas. What the ... Pajamas. What? People wear pajamas to courts.

[00:51:19] Speaker: I

[00:51:19] Speaker 4: can't.

[00:51:20] Speaker: Walmart-

[00:51:20] Speaker 4: I would be assaulted, man. Do, leave it to Walmart, right?

[00:51:22] Speaker: To wear

[00:51:22] Speaker 4: your pajamas. Yeah, but Walmart actually has another option there that would be more appropriate. It-

[00:51:29] Speaker: I'm a big, uh, unnecessary lights on in the house person too.

Oh. Oh, yeah.

[00:51:33] Speaker 4: Every light in the house is on.

[00:51:34] Speaker: I sing it when, when, my stepdad, bless his soul, he, the more lights the better. Ba-ba. I love him. Bonus Dad Steve. Yeah. Uh, and so when he comes to my place, or even if I'm just, like, at their house and I walk around and I just see all these light, like, it's bright as hell outside, sun is up, the roosters have crowed, like we are- You hate this place to actually-

here. And, well, no, these are kind of necessary I guess. Yes, yes. Um, and, uh, man, and so I will literally just, I'll just break out into song. Every light in the house. I'm like, this is energy first of all. Yes. This is also a bill that has to be paid, like ...

[00:52:07] Speaker 6: Well, in my office I don't have the overhead lights.

Like yeah, I'm a no light person.

[00:52:10] Speaker: Well-

[00:52:10] Speaker 6: I mean, I need, I need lamps. I need to- Yeah.

[00:52:12] Speaker: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I would imagine, is your office in the courthouse, right? Yes. Yeah. But I have a- So there's probably the fluorescent

[00:52:18] Speaker 6: light overhead lights. It is. But I have, I have a lovely window, so I- Okay ... overlooking the Wake County Detention Facility.

Oh,

[00:52:23] Speaker: fabulous. Oh, it's beautiful. I,

[00:52:25] Speaker 6: I can see a little bit of red head. It's okay.

[00:52:26] Speaker: Okay. Yeah.

[00:52:28] Speaker 4: I'll wave at you when I'm down getting

[00:52:29] Speaker: the

[00:52:29] Speaker 4: mail. Yeah,

[00:52:31] Speaker: yeah. Oh. Didn't come any, Petty Hill yet?

[00:52:33] Speaker 3: I did. I did. I thought of one. Okay. This has, this has recently come to mind. I, I don't understand why people can't have an opinion anymore like- Cancel

[00:52:40] Speaker: culture ...

[00:52:40] Speaker 3: why can't... I feel like it's a very American thing to just have an opinion.

[00:52:44] Speaker 4: Absolutely. Free speech. That's

[00:52:45] Speaker: how change gets- Whenever you want to have an opinion.

That's how change gets made,

[00:52:47] Speaker 6: first of all. I think people can have some opinions, it's just if you don't like your opinion, unfortunately.

[00:52:51] Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. But also, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. I think we've lost some social rules. I think we've lost some groundwork. We maybe could

[00:53:01] Speaker 6: I'm biting my tongue- Yeah, I

[00:53:02] Speaker 4: know. ... on what I

[00:53:02] Speaker 6: want to

[00:53:02] Speaker 4: say. I am saying- I know. I know ... I am saying that, uh, yeah, it's okay to have your opinion, but, you know, Dolly the Queen-

[00:53:12] Speaker 6: WWDD ...

[00:53:12] Speaker 4: would, yeah, would- Oh ... would agree with that. Like, if you don't have anything nice to say-

[00:53:16] Speaker 6: Don't say anything ...

[00:53:16] Speaker 4: don't say anything at all.

[00:53:18] Speaker 6: Catch more

[00:53:18] Speaker 4: flies- You know? ...

[00:53:19] Speaker 6: with honey.

[00:53:19] Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, so I'm just trying to manifest- And even if you did- ... an Arkin . An Arkin

[00:53:25] Speaker 6: saying. Well, we... And the sad thing is we are more alike than we are different.

[00:53:27] Speaker 4: I know. Yeah. It's true. And it's, like, it's hard to see- I, whenever I have a conversation that somebody sets me up with like, "Oh, they're super conservative, and I'm very liberal."

And- I'm guilty of this. They're gonna- ... you know, they're gonna... They, they're... You're really, you're gonna butt heads. I win 'em every time. And at the end we're like, yeah, they're just trying to divide us. Yes. That's what all of this is about, to divide us. And we are so much more alike. Yes. And have way more things in common.

Yeah.

[00:53:52] Speaker: I also think the opinion thing, it's gotten to a point of, like, just because I'm expressing my opinion, all of a sudden the other person thinks that I'm trying to convince you to believe- Oh, yeah ... what I believe as well. And- Sure. Or it's a

[00:54:01] Speaker 4: personal attack

[00:54:01] Speaker: when it's- Like, you can agree to- ... not about

[00:54:02] Speaker 4: them

[00:54:03] Speaker: just disagree. Mm-hmm. Like, you can have- You don't even need that ... your opinion.

[00:54:06] Speaker 3: You can just let somebody have an opinion. We don't-

[00:54:08] Speaker: Exactly ...

[00:54:09] Speaker 3: you don't even have to agree

[00:54:09] Speaker: to disagree. Be like, cool. That's how you-

[00:54:12] Speaker 4: Which is why it's funny, it's amusing to me about comments. I have no social media, so I'm a weirdo that has this whole separate- She says that, but she has

[00:54:19] Speaker: YouTube, so she does have social media.

[00:54:21] Speaker 4: Well, yeah. Okay. That

[00:54:22] Speaker 3: is the largest social media platform. And

[00:54:23] Speaker 4: LinkedIn. It's true. It's true. It's a highly controlled algorithm. Hello. Um, but, like, I- That's another- The comments that people take their precious time on this earth to sit down and to say that I'm a libtard.

[00:54:36] Speaker 6: There are people that-

[00:54:37] Speaker 4: And that somehow they're like, "That's gonna get her."

[00:54:39] Speaker 6: I think that's-

[00:54:40] Speaker 4: And I...

[00:54:40] Speaker 6: Right. Right. That's gonna change you.

[00:54:42] Speaker: Like- You're gonna lose sleep tonight.

[00:54:43] Speaker 4: And not really recognizing, like, I'm gonna wear that as a badge of honor, right? It's gonna motivate me. Yeah. Like-

[00:54:50] Speaker: What's unfortunate, though, is that in the world of social media, and now especially since there's so many people that make a living off of- Yeah

social media-

[00:54:59] Speaker 4: Well, and these platforms

[00:54:59] Speaker 6: now- And the

[00:54:59] Speaker: hate ... they're- We don't call them

[00:55:00] Speaker 6: influencers. We call them content creators now.

[00:55:03] Speaker: Yes. Excuse me. Yes, content creators. That they, um... No, listen, I appreciate it. I doom scroll just like everybody else. Yeah. I will go down my Instagram rabbit hole, okay? But it's usually miniature dachshunds and sarcastic stuff, Dancing with the Stars, um- Go Camel!

Carolina Hurricanes. Go Camel. Carolina Hurricanes. Yes. Hurricanes. Stanley Cup champs. Um, hockey season about to get back going.

[00:55:25] Speaker 4: Yep.

[00:55:25] Speaker: And, uh, but I, but, but I have seen how quickly- People jump to those negative comments. Yeah. And so someone who you're relying on your income to be in this medium, whether you love or hate it, it, it's here, right?

Yeah. It's not going anywhere anytime soon anyway, and y- it's how you pay your bills. And you ha- and you take, yes, you're choosing to do this But you're not choosing hate, and people just come up there and just for no reason.

[00:55:54] Speaker 6: People think they're anonymous because they're typing on a keyboard.

[00:55:57] Speaker: Behind a screen.

Yeah.

[00:55:58] Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. Keyboard warriors. Well, I mean, that's, that's just, we as my personal opinion, have a inferiority complex of bullies. Like, just bunch of rabid people that need hugs.

[00:56:11] Speaker: Well, you never know if

[00:56:12] Speaker 4: they're gonna- like- ... show up with a

[00:56:13] Speaker: gun,

[00:56:13] Speaker 4: but- Yeah. Like- ... uh, you know, it's, it's, it's really s- it's r- it's, it's sad, but I'm a big believer in hope- Yeah

that we can turn this ship around. Yeah.

[00:56:21] Speaker 3: I think it would be fantastic, this is a, this is in a pain point or pet peeve or anything like that, but why can't we press a button on all of our platforms- Yeah ... that's just like an escape the algorithm? Just show me. I wanna start over. Oh, that's a

[00:56:32] Speaker 5: great idea.

[00:56:33] Speaker 3: Reset. We can download-

[00:56:34] Speaker 4: Purge. That's a great idea.

[00:56:35] Speaker 3: We're, we're entitled to our data. If we ask a company, we should be able to download it. Why can't I press a button that says, "Uh, I don't like this anymore."

[00:56:42] Speaker 4: Yeah. "

[00:56:43] Speaker 3: I would like to begin again." Well, we've

[00:56:43] Speaker 4: relinquished our control not knowing it, signing and agreeing, and like- How many times do you click yes to...

Yeah. It's, yeah. Oh, well, fuck those data centers.

[00:56:55] Speaker: On

[00:56:56] Speaker 4: that note- Just circle that wagon back.

[00:56:57] Speaker: Um, well- Yeah ... oh, I clicked on the wrong button on my laptop. Yeah. Um, Melanie, thank you so much- Of course ... for joining us, uh, this evening. Honored

[00:57:04] Speaker 4: rambling with you two.

[00:57:04] Speaker: Yes, again. We started here, we went here, and we went all kinds of places in between.

Yeah. Um, and I, uh, appreciate the time that you dedicated to do this because- Of course ... that's the one measure in life we all have a finite amount of, so I appreciate that. Uh, listener, um, caller- Thank you ... whatever, however I address you- Thank you ... I'm looking up the, the number that you can call in if you want to leave- Right

um, a, uh, a voicemail, or send a text if you're, um, a millennial or, or younger. Um- I, I will say if you do call, the numbers go straight to voicemail. There is no risk- Mm-hmm ... of anyone answering the phone. It'll go straight to voicemail. We do not listen to them before we, uh, play them here on the podcast. Joe has always said that's gonna come back to bite us in the ass one day, but we'll deal with that whenever we get there.

Uh, but the number to either call or text is 919-295-0578. We would love your random thoughts. They can be profound and very, I don't know, deep. Or they can be, "Do you wash your feet in the shower?"

[00:58:02] Speaker 4: Whatever, whatever floats your rambling fancy.

[00:58:05] Speaker: Yeah.

[00:58:05] Speaker 4: Appreciate your...

[00:58:06] Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh, Melanie, thank you for your service to the community.

Oh, thanks. Yes. To SafeChild- I love this county ... to the families in this county. Yep. SafeChild, firefighting- Mm-hmm ... DA's office, all of the things, man. Girlfriend, you are plugged in. Do your service to your dogs as a- Yes. What kind of

[00:58:20] Speaker 4: dogs do you have?

[00:58:21] Speaker 6: I have a treeing walking coonhound. Oh.

[00:58:24] Speaker: Oh.

[00:58:25] Speaker 6: yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Who is afraid of acorns dropping, so she's on- Adorable ... Prozac every day. And then I had a dog that passed away in, um, August of last year, and I just got a new rescue dog that is beautiful and looks just like my old dog. My old dog was Ollie, and now my new dog is Olive. And the foster family were a bunch of liars.

They said she is calm, she's chill, and she's not food motivated at 13 months old. All I needed them to tell me was she was a puppy and I would be okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I have a full-blown puppy- Puppy, yeah ... who just had eight babies, uh, a couple months ago. So- Oh, boy ... we are working through the jumping and the- Oh, and then the

[00:59:06] Speaker 4: hormone transition

[00:59:08] Speaker 6: too.

Bless. Woo-wee. Yeah. It was, it, it's just been... But she is, when she calms down, she is the sweetest freaking thing ever, so. Oh. Aw. I love them. Girl. And I'll take them for a walk after this. Oh, I love

[00:59:17] Speaker: it. Yep. Love it. I love it. Well, it'll be cooler now. Yes. Anyway, um, w- again, just- Thank you, ladies ... again, thank you so much for joining us and for everything that you do for our community and the families and beyond.

Because the things that you have done, we've talked about ripple effects earlier in our conversation. Mm-hmm. And I can't imagine how many ripple effects that you have had, and hope and healing and justice.

[00:59:35] Speaker 6: Thank you.

[00:59:36] Speaker: Um, so thank you. And with that, Deja,

[00:59:39] Speaker 4: close us out. What are you gonna say? Um, thank you for being an exceptional leader.

It is... Listen, our girls need examples. Yep. So thank you for

[00:59:48] Speaker 6: being you. I'm not good at compliments, but thank you.

[00:59:48] Speaker 4: Um, uh, you're gonna take it. I am. I am. You're gonna take it. You're

[00:59:51] Speaker 6: gonna like it. I'm

[00:59:53] Speaker 4: scared I absolutely will. Um, and I, I sincerely appreciate the protection.

[00:59:58] Speaker 6: Yep.

[00:59:59] Speaker 4: You are part of our protection team here, and so thank you for what you do.

Thanks. And I just want everyone listening, watching, um, to truly understand that the, the dedication that it takes is way more than you can see on TV.

[01:00:16] Speaker 6: And I can't wait for you guys to hear from Nikisha on your next episode.

[01:00:19] Speaker 4: Yes, yes. Ooh, coming up. Teaser. So I appreciate

[01:00:21] Speaker 6: it. I appreciate it. She is sassy and on top of things.

I,

[01:00:23] Speaker 4: ugh. So Safe Child, um, is exceptional because of the work that you've done. Our community is exceptional because of the work that you've done. Yes. I'm gonna keep giving it to you. Thank you.

[01:00:31] Speaker 6: Thank you.

[01:00:32] Speaker 4: for everyone else out there, I love you, and you just keep on rambling.