Ramblings of a Restless Mind

24 - Flirt Coach - Mr. Benjamin
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[00:00:00] Benjamin: relationships aren't supposed to be convenient. And this is a discourse, like a narrative I see online all the time is everyone wants to be, everyone wants to be a part of a village, but everyone, no one wants to be a villager.

Right. Yeah. Very true. I see some variation

of that comment. , Just a lot. And this is, relationships require a lot, not just vulnerability and honesty and transparency. They require our time. They require our ability to work through conflict and problem solve and be able to compromise, which are skills that are gonna be very hard to develop.

If you just exist like on Roblox or you're just playing video games all the time, that's not the same.

[00:01:13] Jen: Ho ho. Holy shit. It's December Ramblers. What is up? , I'm feeling festive as fuck this year. I'm not gonna lie. How are you doing buddy? Festivus as fuck. Festive. We're here for it, and honestly we have, this is very exciting for us because we hit about a year. Yeah. Yeah. I think our first episode published like.

December 8th. It's true. Been or something like that last year. So, you know, with our brother Joe. Sure. You Yeah, that's right. Which you guys know, if you listened to the last couple of episode episodes, I can't talk apparently today. , You know way more about Joe Yeah. Than you probably ever thought you would.

Yep.

[00:01:50] Joe: Yeah. I don't remember what I said, so hopefully it wasn't bad.

[00:01:52] Jen: Bunch of cool shit, man. You DJing

[00:01:54] Joe: for GOD. Mm-hmm. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yep.

[00:01:57] DeJah: It was fantastic story. Yeah. You guys

[00:01:58] Joe: interviewed

[00:01:58] DeJah: me. I, yeah, you were right. Thank for stepping in as our guest. Greatly appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:02:05] Jen: Yeah. So we took a little hiatus, , like a month, , to catch a breather.

The holidays were upon us. My mom had knee replacement surgery. Shout out. Shout out Cheryl. She's doing great. Oh yeah. She is kicking ass and taking names. Literally

Thanksgiving was in there and here we are. , We are so excited for our guest today. It's been a little bit since we've had a guest.

[00:02:26] DeJah: We are grateful and thankful

[00:02:28] Jen: Yes. For our

[00:02:29] DeJah: guest today. We sure are in this Thanksgiving season. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:33] Jen: , So I always love telling how I meet people and technically I just met our guest today, , in real life.

IRL as the kids are saying these days. But, , my childhood bestie and I, , we took a yoga class, , summer this year and she listens to my podcast or my hour. I'm sorry you're here. I love you. I'm still there, guys. And, , anyway, she was like, oh my gosh, there's this guy that goes to yoga here. I don't if you.

If you teach there or not, but goes to yoga here. And he was like, I think you'd be a great, great guest for your podcast. I was like, cool, tell me more. And she was like, well point point you in the direction of his Instagram. And it took me a little bit. And then finally I slid in those dms. And ladies and gentlemen, we got, we got Mr.

Benjamin here with us. Mr. Benjamin, thank you so much for joining us.

[00:03:19] Benjamin: Oh my gosh. Thanks for having me on the show today. I'm excited to meet. In bro life as well. Yes.

[00:03:25] Jen: There, it's, there's a clapping. I was like, come on Joey, I gotta come through. I have to give. Oh

[00:03:28] DeJah: my gosh. You have effects. A shout out because we are audible only.

Oh. Ladies and gentlemen, Benjamin has one of the most glorious mustaches that I have ever seen. Oh. In my life. You flatter me. Thank, thank you so much. Want Tom Sellek? Kot. Well, may I? There's so many things I left. I wish I could rock that

[00:03:48] Benjamin: I left my little comb at home.

[00:03:50] DeJah: Ugh. We could get together later.

Next time. Next time.

[00:03:53] Benjamin: Can I, can I tell you his name?

[00:03:54] DeJah: Yes.

[00:03:55] Benjamin: Yes. His name is Leopold Bismarck ii. Oh, the second,

[00:03:59] DeJah: of course. Course. The, it's a legacy.

[00:04:01] Benjamin: Yes. Carrying on. I think my dad had the first. That's

[00:04:04] Jen: brilliant. Thanks dad. I love it. I love it. I love that. Shout out Benjamin's dad. Yes. . And you can't. While as Deja said, we are audio only, you can see this glorious mustache.

Yes. Because Benjamin has a fantastic presence online for various things that we will talk about, , here in just a minute. , And I guess that'll lead us right into a little bit of info about you. So I'm literally just gonna read, because I did not commit this to memory. Okay.

[00:04:27] Benjamin: I'm gonna prepare for you to listen or me to listen to, for you to tell me about myself.

About yourself. Right,

[00:04:32] Jen: right, right. Yes. So, so if you didn't know

[00:04:34] Benjamin: I'm All Ears.

[00:04:36] Jen: Benjamin is a flirt and dating coach, sharing his love of flirting and BFE, which is

[00:04:41] Benjamin: big flirt energy.

[00:04:43] Jen: Hey, with the world, a lifelong introvert and socially anxious member of society. Mm-hmm. Benjamin now helps singles and daters alike flirt with more confidence, clarity, and fun.

As the flirt is all about connection. Benjamin helps the flirt community, the flirty mm-hmm. Date for a place. That allows the value of connection in all forms, platonic, romantic, and with the self to take center stage. Mm-hmm. I love that. With the self. Yes.

[00:05:06] Benjamin: Mm-hmm. Yes.

[00:05:07] Jen: Ultimately, this practice of connection helps floaters and daters alike, create stronger relationships, transcend limiting beliefs, and develop an unwavering love for the self.

His work has been featured in Fortune NBC News, the Huffington Post, men's Health and Yoga Journal. Shout out Yogis. Sweet. You can connect with Benjamin on Instagram, TikTok, and watch on YouTube the and stream the flirtations flirt cast everywhere you listen to podcasts. Like right here. Yeah. And find out more about working together one-on-one here as well.

Wow. Dude, you're awesome. That's a thing. Kavanaugh. Yeah, kinda a badass. Love it, love it, love it. That's awesome. So how like, okay, so NBC News, Huffington Post. Yeah. How did you, you were just that awesome and they found you and they were like, please be on our stuff. Talking

[00:05:51] Benjamin: about flirting. Yeah. Yeah. And it landed me here on your podcast, too.

Yeah. Shout out to Ashlyn. Thanks for hooking us up. Yeah. And connecting us. This is just a really cool experience. I never imagined when I started all of this, just making a few videos from, from my house, from my apartment, that it would lead to a podcast and, and so many things like being featured in Men's Health Yoga Journal.

That was really cool. That's that's awesome. Yeah.

[00:06:16] Jen: , What I mean, so, so flirting. Bless you. First of all, like, because Deja and I both have been on the battle, the battlefield of dating for several years now, post-divorce and, first question. How did you get into this?

[00:06:29] Benjamin: Oh, well, I am dating as well. Shout out to everyone.

Yes. Dating. 'cause my goodness, it is not, it's a hellscape. It really is. It's, I, yeah, I, I've been lucky to do this long enough now to where I get to hear some of the success stories. Get to hear about the first date, the first kiss, the one year anniversary. I've even had a couple engagements, one marriage.

Awesome. Since I've been doing this. That's awesome. I love that. So I love that. I could, congrats here. Congrats. That's cool. Like some of the, I get updates from time to time, like some feedback, guess what? This happened and then that happened. But how I got started in all of this, yes. I've always been a little bit more introverted.

Definitely socially anxious. Those two things have coincided for me, and it's just always been really hard to put yourself out there, but to talk about yourself, to be able to be vulnerable, to speak up for yourself, to really even just acknowledge other people. Maybe offer someone a compliment, smile at someone.

Because if you do that, there's a chance. That maybe they might smile back, they might wave back. And then I find sometimes that's the thing in flirting and dating where it's like maybe you can give someone attention, you can give someone a compliment or you know, ask a question, something like that. But then when it becomes more of a conversation, when you start to develop a little bit of maybe a relationship, that's when some of the anxiety starts to come in.

So. I just one day, I mean, I was making videos about all kinds of things. I was a city planner in my previous life looking to get out of the office, get away from those fluorescent lights, not interested in that anymore. Um, but didn't imagine when I started doing some trainings and coaching and nutrition, just some different things, exploring what I wanted to do, what was next, what was the next evolution of me going to be, that it would become about flirting, which then became about dating.

And then I bring a lot of yoga stuff into it as well. I am a yoga teacher, and so I feel like the bio you read a few moments ago was very yoga.

[00:08:22] DeJah: I mean, I, yoga, yoga. I was kind of thinking that, that along those lines, and having listened to, , started listening to your podcast and thinking about the, the center of it all.

It's not just the flirting, but it's the self love piece. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. Right. And yoga. Is so intrinsically wired in you gaining your self love and knowledge of oneself.

[00:08:39] Benjamin: Mm-hmm. Right.

[00:08:40] DeJah: So yeah. That is the etiology.

[00:08:43] Benjamin: It's a big part of it. Yes. Yes. And that's the hardest thing. Like I always think about if you're drag race drag race fans or anyone watching if they're drag race fans, RuPaul always said, if you or always says, if you can't love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love somebody else?

Mm-hmm. Which is true. Yep. But I would say you, you can learn to love yourself by loving other people, by connecting with other people. That's how you can learn about yourself. And sometimes that may be what comes first, so you don't have to love yourself, like be fully healed or anything like that, which is how is that even a thing to flirt?

Are we ever to love fully healed? You know? Never we're, it's, it's a process. It's a journey, right? It's a practice. But I love that we can learn about ourselves through how we like to connect, how we like to form relationships, how we like to flirt. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:26] Jen: And I, and I love that it's flirt coaching, not, not that you're not a dating coach, right, right.

I mean, I would, I would imagine some of it is there as it does what a

[00:09:34] DeJah: holistically in a life coach kind of style. Mm-hmm. Because it is, you're learning yourself love and then you're branching out into giving love, right? Yeah. So it is kind of. All in one 'cause you gotta be able to flirt with yourself.

[00:09:44] Benjamin: Absolutely. I, I, that is, I like to, to flirt with myself. It's guys me too too. That's the only good flirting

[00:09:49] DeJah: that I can do is to me

[00:09:53] Benjamin: just look in the mirror. Oh my gosh. Yes. Damn

[00:09:55] Jen: straight. I mean, she had a fucking

[00:09:56] Benjamin: good, she

[00:09:57] Jen: had a dream that she married herself one time, so, um, oh my, I actually just bought myself an engagement

[00:10:02] Benjamin: room.

A beach wedding? Mountain wedding. Are we do fall summer? Yes. I

[00:10:06] DeJah: was like, I'll throw myself a wedding. Love it. Love it. Yeah. There's self, it's just a party. There's self piece. Yes,

[00:10:11] Benjamin: absolutely. Yeah. But I do, I mean, it started out as flirt. Coaching. I mean, I call myself the flirt coach, self-proclaimed. But then it evolved into talking about dating.

'cause why do people wanna flirt? What are their questions about it's, oh, I have a crush. Or, oh, I want to go out, or, oh, I want to get on the apps, or maybe I'm on there, but like, how do I really make this work for me? So then it, I guess, started to get a lot of questions about dating too. Mm-hmm. Which made me really uncomfortable.

I had to get used to answering those questions, but answering them them in a way that felt supportive, that felt encouraging. That really relied on my life experience, but also my coaching training too, to help people get what they want. It's not about what works for me or what I want, it's about what works for you and what you want.

So how can I help you with that?

[00:10:56] Jen: Yeah. Yeah. Do you, is there any like. Folks that you work with, is there like an overriding or like a, the most common kind of hurdle that you get for pe from people? Like what they don't feel like they can, or they don't date, they don't flirt, right? Mm-hmm. Or that they don't feel like they have it in them, or they've lost the interests or that, you know, like, is there like a biggest misnomer, , or question I guess you get from clients?

[00:11:20] Benjamin: I mean, a lot of limiting beliefs. What I, which I would feel like any practitioner, coach, therapist, like anyone kind of in the life space, like personal development space, is probably gonna help people with their limiting beliefs. One of the biggest ones I hear is the, the, the fear of, oh, I'm not good at this.

I can't do this. I'm too awkward, I'm too weird, I do this wrong. Why would anyone wanna flirt with me? Kind of thing. The fear of rejection, but also this, this fear or this thought that, like, why would anybody wanna flirt with me? Why would anybody want to go on a date with me? Mm-hmm. Like, why would anybody wanna even pay attention to me?

Kind of thing. Like I feel, I,

[00:11:58] DeJah: I, I resonate with that as a middle aged woman, I, I literally have become in invisible, right? Like, it's a, like, I could get run over to get to somebody who's younger behind me. Like,

[00:12:10] Jen: dude, you could never become invisible. Like, you're too mad. Madness of a fantastic person to ever I am.

That's why I love

[00:12:18] DeJah: me

[00:12:19] Benjamin: all.

[00:12:19] DeJah: That's why we're getting that all I need. We're getting

[00:12:21] Benjamin: married.

[00:12:23] DeJah: Yes. Yep, yep, yep. Because I, yeah. You know, it's, it just, is it, it it just is. There's a lot of social stigmas. There's a lot of things that we have to acknowledge. 'cause some of them can't be overcome. Mm-hmm. Um, but, it is hard.

It is hard. That feeling of unworthiness even unto yourself. Like you are not worthy, because that's what I think it comes down to is you're not worthy. You're not worthy of being flirted with somehow. You're not worthy of someone coming up to you somehow. You know? And that's a centerpiece of love that you are worthy.

[00:12:50] Benjamin: Absolutely.

[00:12:51] DeJah: Like, yeah. So I get, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[00:12:56] Benjamin: yeah. And then where that leads. Just in your mind and in your heart, and in your body too, do you start feeling lonely? Do you start to isolate? Do you start to withdraw? Like how does that manifest? Mm-hmm. How does that affect your other relationships with your friends, with your family?

Of course. The relationship with yourself. And so a lot of what I feel like I do when I get to, I get to meet one-on-one with people. It's, it's not so much about the how to, I mean giving some people some how to, some go-to maybe things to say some openers, some ways to close the flirt, some questions to ask.

Like having some of those things in your back pocket can be really helpful for when you do be, when you're in the moment and you do get anxious and you do get in your head. , And it's really hard to think about, oh my gosh, what do I say? , So having a few things to go to for sure. But more so just like, how do you wanna show up?

It's the relationship with the self. It's what, what all you do outside of the flirt, outside of the date. Just what you do in your everyday life, because it's all experience and it's all practiced that you can bring in to flirting and dating too.

[00:13:55] DeJah: And I think it's this also in this age that we're in, because I, I'm just really making myself sound fucking old.

, But I come from the era of you meet in public, right? You talk in person

[00:14:08] Benjamin: mm-hmm.

[00:14:08] DeJah: Online in the texting form. Mm-hmm. It is extremely derivative. Right. It's really hard sometimes to un understand someone's humor. Yeah. Someone's sarcasm, someone's intention, someone's meaning. Mm-hmm. It's very difficult to not overread under read.

Mm-hmm. Right. That's why dating websites are just a, a nightmare if you have like at least two hamsters rolling upstairs because, , it's real simple. If you're not bright, I got a whole colon. Like if you're like, there's

[00:14:36] Benjamin: a hamster wheel, there's all sorts of stuff happening. Yeah.

[00:14:39] DeJah: Because if you, you know, if you just are like.

Hey, you know what? I just like to sit on my ass and play video games, and I like to eat shit delivered to my door. Like if that's like your life, like you, you know, it's okay. It's easy enough to to talk about that. Mm-hmm. , But if like, it's just really hard. I think I am not in person to identify the ability to open up and communicate and feel trust and be safe when it's in a text form.

Right. Yeah. When you're in human connection mm-hmm. Looking at somebody in the eye. Mm-hmm. I personally, that would be easier for me to feel more confident to like flirt. Yeah. Like, because then you've build that trust online. I think it's hard and I think it separates us even more so like, I don't know.

[00:15:21] Benjamin: I think I agree.

Bringing

[00:15:22] DeJah: back in person, like Yeah. I think

[00:15:25] Benjamin: you're speaking to a few different experiences that can happen online, whether you're on the dating app, social media, you're texting, where it's missing a lot of tone and context. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You're not getting body language, you're not getting tonality, you're not getting someones sort of cadence and rhythm and the way they're talking.

It's hard to pick up even energy. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. Versus when you're in person. I'm feeling the energy right now, if we were doing this even virtually, there would be. Ah, yes, because we're seeing each other. We're able, able to hear and, and yeah, see each other, but still that energy is missing a little bit.

And also it's the expectation piece when we're, when we're chatting and we're probably talking to multiple people at once. Mm-hmm. Probably, and we have expectations that oftentimes don't get voiced. Right. But we place those expectations, expectations on other people. And when those expectations aren't met, then all of a sudden we're let down or we're like, we get upset.

Like, how could you, you know, not text me back in an hour. That was my, I expected you to, 'cause I did the same for you. And so it just, a lot gets lost in translation. Mm-hmm. Um, a lot gets lost in just the ability to feel like we can be honest and say what's on our mind. And I understand there's a lot of fear in that.

There's, it's scary to do that. It's scary to do that in person.

[00:16:30] Jen: Yeah. That's why, I mean, she and I have had, lord, lots of, lots of conversations around all of this. Mm-hmm. But like in connecting with someone, we'll say on a dating app, right? Mm-hmm. And that's actually one of the, one of your podcast episodes I listened to was, , the all about like.

The algorithms and stuff like that. I just kind of randomly picked one, and then it was actually published on my birthday and I was like, well, this was that serendipitous. Wow. That

[00:16:50] Benjamin: was such a fun conversation. That was, it was

[00:16:52] Jen: so good. But I think to your point, like Deja and I have talked about when we connect with someone, match with someone, we send enough communications back and forth to hopefully get enough of a field that they're not a serial killer.

Right. And then it's like, let's meet in person for that reason, because you might be a phenomenal texter and say all of these great things and then we meet in person and you can tell that you haven't been social in real life, like at all at Bundy

[00:17:15] DeJah: was nearly an attorney and very linguistically talented.

[00:17:18] Jen: So therefore, yeah. And it's, you know, and anytime we go on dates, which has been a little bit mm-hmm. We will like share location, say their name. Mm-hmm. Like what, you know what mean. Absolutely. Yeah. And so that leads me to the question of like flirting, because I feel like as a female in this day and age mm-hmm.

And that could just be because we talk about it more, so it's always been there, but any inclination that. Uh, in a heterosexual relationship mm-hmm. That a a sometimes if a female flirts, then the man might just kind of take it and run with it and becomes very scary very quickly. Yeah.

[00:17:49] Benjamin: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:50] Jen: . Have you dealt with that or helped clients through that as well?

'cause I just feel like that's such a big thing for, I mean, anyone in the dating world really. Mm-hmm. But, um, or the flip side of that coin, I'm just throwing all these things at you, is if you are a man who does have wonderful intentions and is not a creeper mm-hmm. Or, you know, a sexual predator. Yeah. How do you flirt without coming, you know, without, to hopefully, hopefully make the woman feel safe or the, the other person feel safe, right.

Mm-hmm.

[00:18:16] Benjamin: Yeah. I mean, there's some definite, definite differences in how we flirt and how we date versus our gender, our sexuality. Like how I show up in the world as a gay man is not in any way the same as how you all are showing up in the world or how it, it's, it's, our experiences are very different. So I can't just rely on my experience flirting and say, oh, this is how it is for everyone.

And that's something that I had to learn. Very quickly doing this and become really mindful of how do I wanna talk about flirting and dating? How do I wanna share how we do this? Like what my personal flirt philosophy is? 'cause I hope it can be something that is comfortable and feels safe and ultimately fun for everyone.

But yeah, like something guys don't think about when they go on a date is sharing the location. Mm-hmm. Right? How they're gonna get there. If they're walking, are they by themselves? Like where is it close by? Are we doing nighttime? Are we doing daytime? Like, they're not thinking about these things. Mm-hmm.

And I always think about like, because I work part-time at a grocery store, , a lot of time they're actually, and I'll notice when, when women come up and they like set their keys on, like they're checking out and stuff. More often than not, there's. There's pepper, like there's something on there. Never see it on a guy's key chain.

Right? Ever. Like one, one time. One time I saw it. That was, but it's, it's a rare, it's a rare thing that I experienced. And so it's like how can we, how can we flirt in a way that feels like good in our body? That feels like, yeah. And so one thing we can do is know when, like if someone is flirting with you, like if your woman and a guy's flirting with you and you don't feel comfortable, like being able to just.

Not, not flirt with them because you feel like you have to, or not like go into the conversation or really reciprocate or engage in any way because you feel like you have to. So having a few things like, oh, like picking up my phone. Oh, my friend's calling me, oh, I gotta get going. Like, I gotta go, you know, my, my mom, I need to get to her.

Like a parent, a family member, member, something like that. It doesn't have to be true, but being able to exit the situation, exit the flirt, and then getting on the phone, texting someone, maybe catching someone's eye can like you, is there somewhere, like at a store, somewhere, a restaurant, could someone walk you to your car?

And so being able to get out of a flirt if you feel like you need to get out of a flirt or a situation where it's just not, it's not going well, or you feel uncomfortable or you feel unsafe. And so part of what I feel like I, I hope I do in talking to a lot of guys too, is help them understand how. The way they may flirt may make someone really uncomfortable if you're all of a sudden like kind of crowding their space.

Like just, just like encroaching on personal space. If you're going right to physical compliments, if you're becoming really touchy or even not like physically aggressive, but just being like kind of physically flirty in that way, that's not how we can start to flirt. Or if you're just

[00:21:03] DeJah: straight sexual.

[00:21:04] Benjamin: Yes. Oh my

[00:21:05] DeJah: gosh.

[00:21:05] Benjamin: It's awful. It's awful. Have you ever this

[00:21:07] DeJah: one joke about big black cock? Well, yeah. You're not hooking me.

[00:21:12] Jen: Like Yeah. Or there's like, have you had a client that that where they've been like, well, I don't know, maybe you've asked them to show you. They're like dating app communications and you just see and they're just like.

We're gonna, we're gonna reel all this back and we're gonna start from scratch and we're gonna talk about what not to do. Mm-hmm. Because there have been so many instances, either personally or I've heard other, , folks in the dating battlefield say, you know, like, you just say hi and then you get this, so when can I come over?

Or, you know, when you gonna collect them cheeks or what, you know what I mean? Like something so aggressive. And I'm like, have we just lost all, like, how do we weed these people out? Like, don't even let 'em on the abs.

[00:21:50] Benjamin: Some people are just gonna be like that. Yeah. To be honest, they're never

[00:21:54] DeJah: Joe, cover your ears.

Yeah.

[00:21:55] Benjamin: They're just

[00:21:55] DeJah: heterosexual men doing it for everyone. Um,

[00:22:00] Joe: I tried to cover my ears, but I'm wearing headphones and it,

[00:22:02] Benjamin: it just got,

but when I'm doing my flirt search, like this is something I pay attention to is what type of dating advice are guys getting straight, guys getting. Yes.

[00:22:14] DeJah: Yes. And they're getting red pill bullshit. They're

[00:22:15] Benjamin: getting manosphere red pill. Very like the, the flirt, the type of flirting advice they get is pickup artist stuff.

Yeah. It's right. Just how to get the number, how to get the woman in bed that's not flirting. No, and that's also, I dunno what what that is, but it's not flirting.

[00:22:29] DeJah: That's, um, and the only thing I ever paid attention to is YouTube. And I have a very specific to certain content creators and one of them is specifically the polls, men talking to each other about relationships.

[00:22:39] Benjamin: Hmm mm-hmm. And

[00:22:40] DeJah: it is, it is sad because the reality is the majority of them don't just want a one night stand.

[00:22:46] Benjamin: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:47] DeJah: They want love, they wanna be in a relationship. Yes. But they are so conditioned and trained to treat a woman as a sexual object to be disposed of. Mm-hmm. That. They don't know how they're self-defeating.

Yeah. You know, and that which is sad. Mm-hmm. Because then we're on the other side going, hey.

[00:23:03] Benjamin: Yeah. So

[00:23:06] DeJah: I mean I can, I can imagine that. Yeah. You know, if you're trying to help a straight dude and you're like, yeah, so maybe just don't go right for the pussy grab. Right. Like, don't do that. Maybe, maybe dial back and like, how you doing? What's your si? Like maybe some couple questions. Yeah. Off the top.

Yes. Show some interest. Yeah.

[00:23:23] Benjamin: It becomes about how to build and create conversations. Yes. How to build in the moment connections. How to be able to listen, how to be able to ask questions. How to be able to offer or share a compliment that isn't overly just sexual right away about someone's body, or specifically about how they look.

It's about how to. Acknowledge and, and be vulnerable with someone without going into like oversharing or trauma dumping or going into, you know, all you do is just talk about yourself and your deepest, darkest secrets forever when the other person's like, wait a second, wait a minute. I got myself too Uhuh.

I didn't ask for all of this. I just thought you were cute. True, true, true. Very true. Yeah. It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's a lot.

[00:24:06] DeJah: Oh my God. It's more than just, that's me. If I can't, I can't hit on a woman. Because my mind spins and I can't objectify. Oh my God, that's a great cardigan. Where did you buy that cardigan?

Like blink. Don't forget to blink. No, I'm not. I look like a cycle,

[00:24:26] Jen: but, but here, but here's the difference because as I, like, I don't wanna object,

[00:24:29] Benjamin: but I do.

[00:24:30] Jen: But as a straight woman, if a woman hit on me, first of all, I would just think that was the biggest compliment ever. Oh, I'm sure it has happened. Sec. Second of all, I wouldn't find it creepy at all because women are inherently creepy.

That's correct. You know, or like aggressive or you know, like that's what I need to remind myself is

[00:24:45] DeJah: you're not creepy. It's okay. No.

[00:24:50] Jen: So I, I don't know, man. Bless you. You are out there doing the Lord's work's. No doubt. Yeah.

[00:24:55] Benjamin: And so I'm thinking about some of the calls now. Calls now I've had, have had with guys and they. Some of them don't, A lot of them don't know how to flirt if it's not just about the physical compliments. Mm-hmm. It's like, I remember this one call I had, um, and this has happened a a few times where it's like, wait a second, the point of flirting isn't to like get the date, the point of flirting isn't like to have sex with them.

Right. Like why? What's the point? Like why would I wanna do that? It's like, well, do you know anything about this person? Do you know their name? What is even interesting about them to you? What, what have you learned about them? Is it just about the way they look? Right. Because just get online, go watch porn.

Like that's all it's about. Right? Say just buy just a higher sex worker some sex. Like you don't have, have to

[00:25:40] DeJah: waste our time out here in the streets trying to get something real. Yeah. If it's just about sex, you can buy that, that that is an option. Mm-hmm. It's an option. Yes. Absolutely. And shout out to sex work is work.

Yeah. Um, so, yeah. Yeah. No,, it's very interesting 'cause I've had so many online conversations of that very same nature, asking a man, you, you do realize that. Mm-hmm. Sex isn't the only thing we can talk about. Right. Like we, and of course I have nothing to do with them in the end. What I can't help but engage sometimes and be like, I wanna know how your brain works.

Right. And then I'm gonna walk away in fear. Yeah. But, it is sad to me that the degradation of communication and relationships Yeah. Because flirting is an art mm-hmm. That I feel like I, like I used to be good at, but I also used to bartend. Right. So, ah, you got a lot of practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So you got them tips. Yeah. Straight. , But it was, you know, a lot of complimenting and Yeah. You know, but not engagement. And

[00:26:42] Jen: I, and I wonder, and I think, 'cause as a fellow Libra

[00:26:44] DeJah: mm-hmm.

[00:26:45] Jen: One of the things that is, and listen, I don't take my zodiac sign to the grave, like it is everything about me, but I do, I am a,

[00:26:51] DeJah: it's pretty close.

I,

[00:26:53] Jen: I am a people person. And so, you know, like. And I, I know one of the things about Libra is that they're inherently generally like charismatic and flirty.

[00:27:02] Benjamin: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:02] Jen: And I've been called out by people before talking to people in different scenarios and they're like, you were totally flirting with them. And I'm like, no, I wasn't.

Yes you are.

[00:27:09] DeJah: Yes

[00:27:09] Jen: you are. You are very, and I'm like naturally like,

[00:27:11] DeJah: Hey,

[00:27:12] Jen: no, I was just talking to them as a human being. And so all that to say, I wonder if sometimes people are flirting, they're just not even aware that they're flirting. Mm-hmm. If I'm talking to someone that I have really like zero interest in, like a romantic or companionship capacity.

Mm-hmm. My brain doesn't go like, oh, I'm flirting with them. Right. Even though that's some, some of the scenarios I've been called out on and I'm like, I, I was just having fun talking to this person. Like they should take that as a

[00:27:35] DeJah: compliment.

[00:27:35] Jen: Damn it. All of a sudden I go to like, oh my gosh, I did something wrong.

I shouldn't, I guess I shouldn't have been flirting with them. They're gonna get the wrong idea, you know, Uhhuh. But to your point of, the point of flirting isn't just to have sex, right? No. So do you think sometimes folks that you're working with or, or do they stumble upon or realize that, oh, I do maybe know how to flirt.

I just didn't know that was flirting.

[00:27:56] Benjamin: Absolutely, and I've been told a time or two, I've been flirting as well.

Take anywhere. Geez. It's, we can't help it. We're air signs, we're cur, naturally curious.

[00:28:09] Jen: I very Yeah.

[00:28:11] Benjamin: About people. Yep. Places and things. Love it. Love it. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. I think people oftentimes flirt when they don't realize it or they do realize it, and they flirt and then they get into that situation of, oh, like I don't wanna lead someone on.

Mm-hmm. I don't wanna give them, you know, some very reasonable expectations. Mm-hmm. If I'm showing a lot of interest in someone that I'm interested in them in maybe a specific way to go on a date or there's some romantic attraction, something like that there. But how I share about flirting, it's, it's the authentic expression of interest in the present moment.

To make a connection without those expectations. That's really all it is. And it elevates above kind of that small talk banter, right? You're at a party or just like classic situation in the elevator. So like, um, how about that weather? Right? How about that game yesterday? Oh my gosh, did your team win? Like, whatever.

Like that's just sort of, there's, you're just kind of filling the air. Like maybe you have an interesting moment. Maybe you figure out something you have in common. Maybe you're going to the same floor and you're going to like the same doctor's office or something like maybe. But it's about bringing some curiosity into it.

It's about really being intentional and along with that intention. If you don't wanna flirt, that's okay too. Mm-hmm. You can ride that elevator, not say a single thing. You can keep your headphones in and look at your phone. That's fine. We don't have to be flirting all the time. But I hope it can be this practice of connection so that we don't go about our lives.

Just like not acknowledging one another. Mm-hmm. Like really just being so in our heads. And just wrapped up in our own thoughts that we don't just experience life and the world happening around us. That's a lot of what flirting is, that we'll experience and connect experience, that practice of connection with other people, but also with tons of things.

Mm-hmm. It's about how we just live our lives as well.

[00:30:01] DeJah: I know in your podcasts one of the episodes there's a few Yep. There's just a few I talking about, you know, like you were saying that that inherent doubt, it's, it's guilt, it's shame, it's things that are built up inside of us mm-hmm. That inhibit us from being our, our full selves or feeling like we have to restrain ourselves.

Right? Mm-hmm. , I am just curious mm-hmm. If, are there specific things that you find men like to be complimented on?

[00:30:30] Benjamin: Hmm.

[00:30:30] DeJah: Ooh. Right. Inquiring minds. Wanna note? Yeah. Right. Lemme, lemme take some notes. I'm just kidding. Mm-hmm. Because like, I honestly, we, you know, everybody likes their own jam, but just curious if, like, are there like a few points that are resonate across the board?

The men love to hear

[00:30:43] Benjamin: specific to the flirt.

[00:30:45] DeJah: Yeah. Yeah. Like what do, what do dudes wanna hear? I mean,

[00:30:49] Benjamin: maybe ironically guy, and this is what I hear and what I experience sometimes too, aside from today with the mustache compliment, but guys don't get a lot of. Compliments just in their everyday life. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And so, going beyond, you know, just maybe like their clothes, a watch, like a car, like some of that material stuff. Complimenting something about their physical appearance, their eyes, their smile, their facial hair, their hair. Like something not about their body, but something sort of style aesthetic.

Something like that can be really cool. Would probably put a smile on his face. And then complimenting effort. Mm-hmm. So if like, like just pull into a parking space just right. Like, wow, damn, seen anyone parked, sit outta that car. Okay. Compliment the effort. Mm-hmm.

[00:31:34] DeJah: Noted. Yeah. Yeah. I think that Joe, does that check?

I,

[00:31:39] Joe: I think so. I think it lines up. I was just reading, I was just, I'm over here. Check GPT and stuff, so you gotta take it with a grain of salt. But the, , one of the studies that I just pulled up said that 80% of all compliments go to women. Yeah. So they, that sounds fault, right?

[00:31:51] DeJah: Well, again, these are social and conditionings.

Right. Mm-hmm. Like, you guys aren't supposed to need to hear anything, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like and we're supposed to, the vulnerable ones, the doughs, you guys come up social direct. Yeah. So, no, that makes perfect sense to me. Mm-hmm. That we don't equally distribute

[00:32:08] Benjamin: confidence. And then this is like, I, I feel like I gotta fight sometimes a lot of the advice that's on social media, on and on the internet, I bet where a lot of dating coaches and people calling themselves, dating coaches, like playing, operating in the dating space would be like, don't compliment the guy.

Yeah. Not in, not in flirting. Not in dating. That's, doesn't

[00:32:24] DeJah: seem to, don't

[00:32:25] Benjamin: do it. And I'm like, but how? Regardless of who you are, gender, sexuality, doesn't matter. You wanna feel appreciated? No. You wanna feel valued. Like, girl, you remember that

[00:32:34] DeJah: dude that we were sitting next to after the uh, Gatsby Gatsby party?

Mm-hmm. And he was talking about this man at the bar. Mm-hmm. Who we were both trying to flirt with. Was legitimately like, no, I want a woman who's gonna play games with me and is gonna call and then tell me that, oh, she can't talk to me and hang up on me. I'm like, what the sweet no fucking mental disorder are you describing?

Yeah. Like, none of that sounds good to me. No. Like, 'cause, you know, just curious. So we're just asking like, Hey, you know? Mm-hmm. Then to hear that and I'm like, no, it was a very

[00:33:05] Jen: interesting perspective. I was like, yeah,

[00:33:09] DeJah: no. So again, I'm just saying you're taking a survey.

[00:33:13] Benjamin: Yeah. He might need to do some journaling, need some meditation perhaps.

Like why do you wanna be, interestingly, this is why I think, I mean, I say a lot as if it's like an official statistic. I don't have a number, but a lot of people date not for the relationship or 'cause they want a relationship. They date for the games. You know, it's true. They date for the hot and cold they date because the thrill of the chase in a way.

Yes. It becomes about the chase. And if you really don't feel inherently worthy or like you deserve the love that relationship, then, then dating in a way where you're never gonna get that. But that's always the goal. Mm. You're setting yourself up to you therapy, but you're just, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're.

Following that same pattern, right? It's that belief. It's an endless,

[00:34:54] Jen: it's, well, it's like it truly is exhausting. And several, several years ago, I, when you've heard me saying this before, that I used to work at a family law firm. And we did Facebook Lives before, like podcasting was really big. And they did, the firm does have a podcast as well, but we had, um, a lady who was a matchmaker and she came on and she was, this was really when like Bumble was really getting Yeah.

Starting to get into its height. And this was pre COVID. Yeah. And I remember asking her like, is dating fatigue a thing? And she was like, oh yeah, absolutely. And, and she like explained some signs of it and everything. And I think especially once you get into it, and maybe if you're in the mood and you're like, yes, I'm gonna do this, and then you get into it and you kind of get thrown to the wolves and you start connecting with people and talking to people and you're saying the same things over and over again, you know?

Yeah, yeah. Or you go on a few bad dates and you're like, Nope. But you have throw your phone across the room. You know, like those kind of things. That's when, that's when we take a break. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, like,

[00:35:46] Benjamin: oh yeah, dating burnout, fatigue is real and. Beyond that. I made a video about this a, a while ago, is we weren't meant to experience rejection on this scale.

Oh yeah. Where if you're on the apps, I mean, you could be rejected and reject other people. I mean, hundreds of times a week, a thousand times. I'm gonna go ahead and give men

[00:36:05] DeJah: again, a more greater shout out on that because women, we have the advantage. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We, we, there are far, far more men that, that get re Yeah.

They get that re get rejected on the routine mm-hmm. Than women do. We have, we get far more matches. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and so I, I, I understand. Where the incel community came from, right? Like in this un unfortunate, because what we're talking about mm-hmm. We're now in an endless, perpetual cycle of rejection mm-hmm.

Of rejection, right? Mm-hmm. So I can understand that complete introversion and that withdraw into self, which is sad. It's really sad.

[00:36:41] Benjamin: Yeah. And it happens. I mean, the ghosting, right? Yeah. Where you go on a date or you've even been on a few dates. I mean, I've heard just way too many times where even you're in a relationship with someone, you're, you're an official, official couple, your partners, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever, whatever's going on.

And then the other person just, he just disappears outright, ghost. And when so much of your relationship is built online through the apps and social media. It's all you have to do is delete, block remove. Right? Yep. Yeah. There you go.

[00:37:08] DeJah: Yeah. Yep. Which again, detaches from human relation.

[00:37:12] Benjamin: Yep.

[00:37:13] DeJah: Like we are, we are, we're in an era of the mm-hmm.

Detachment, which is why mm-hmm. I think it's so very difficult to find connection because we are setting ourselves up to detach. Mm-hmm. Yep. Like that, right? Mm-hmm. Like

[00:37:24] Jen: it becomes a defense mechanism. Yes. Right? Yes. Like after it happened, I mean, I remember when I got stood up on my birthday with a guy that I had been out with several times.

It was his idea to take me outta on my birthday and then poof just doesn't show up. Mm-hmm. Thank goodness for besties that come to the rescue and take you to a bar. Yes. Yeah. But like, I was just like, I don't understand how this even happened. Like, you were the one who offered, you said you were gonna coordinate, you made a reservation.

Mm-hmm. Then boom, you just completely ghost. Mm-hmm. And I'm just like, because your first reaction is like. What's wrong with me? Absolutely. Like, what did I do to cause this? Even though you're told by everybody else and you read and you learn, and eventually hopefully you get to the, the fact of like, had nothing to do with me.

Yeah. That is all about that person, but that is so hard to internalize and believe and grasp onto. And so we build up these defense mechanisms like, well, I'm not gonna get too attached because Yep. They might ghost me or, you know, whatever.

[00:38:13] Benjamin: Yeah. And that's where we often go, what did I do? Mm-hmm. Because you're trying to, you're find, you're trying to find clarity and closure, like what happened?

You're trying to find the why and you're only left with you and your experience because the other person has completely removed themselves from the situation and they're not giving you anything. I mean, the not showing up, that's the closure and clarity. But where is like, where's the conversation in that?

Where's the understanding in that? Where's the transparency and the honesty and the vulnerability, even if it's for whatever reason, whatever their reason was. Just something.

[00:38:44] Jen: Yeah.

[00:38:44] Benjamin: Anything. Yeah. Yeah. Because we're deserving of at least

[00:38:46] Jen: that something should be like, ah, I just wasn't feeling it. Or I'm, I've met somebody else.

Or I, you know, something, whatever. Like something. Yeah. I wish

[00:38:53] DeJah: you the best.

[00:38:53] Jen: Yeah.

[00:38:54] DeJah: That's what I send. Right? I at least always send, , wish you the best. Wish you the best. There you go. Like, I, I'm not, you know, like the, the ghosting culture is very, very cowardly. Mm-hmm. It is. And I have been ghosted a million times over and I've been stood up and I won't do that.

No. I never win. At least be like. You know what? You're cool. But I feel like we're going in different ways. We should best. Yeah. And then peace of,

[00:39:15] Jen: and I try to like, I think my personality, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt first.

[00:39:19] Benjamin: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:19] Jen: So like in that particular instance, I got very worried. Oh yeah.

I was like, is this person okay? Did they get in a car accident? Like I'm trying to, I hate talking on the phone. Mm-hmm. But I was like, I'm even gonna call him, see, like if he's, are you alive? Is this a Libra thing? I don't enjoy it. My phone all the time. Oh gosh, no. I would much rather do this, get on a video

[00:39:37] DeJah: chat.

[00:39:37] Jen: But yeah. But something about, so on phone I call her,

[00:39:41] DeJah: I immediately, first thing I say is it's not an emergency. She does because we, we don't ever talk on the phone. Right. So friends know that about

[00:39:48] Benjamin: me as well. Everything's fine. Yep,

[00:39:50] DeJah: yep, yep. It's only 'cause I'm driving and I can't text right now, guys. Yeah.

Yeah. Or I just had way too much to say that couldn't wait until the next time we hang out. Correct. Yeah. My a

[00:39:59] Jen: DD said it had to get out now. Yes. But a lot of times, if it is that scenario, we'll text each other and say, Hey, are you free for a call? Yes. 'cause then we know like, okay, this is something that they, that she needs to, to talk about right now.

Right. That's a good literal approach. It went to go hang out with a guy for a weekend, and then as soon as I got in the car to head home, I was like, Hey buddy, are you free? Like, I got so much shit in my mind that I need to just like verbal diarrhea right now. I need to get your feedback. Yes, yes, yes. , Yeah, with, gosh.

Okay, so with all of, of the online dating and the algorithms and the, I remember hearing you say in one of your episodes about like the Facebook groups where the overriding thing was that men are trash and and that women are gold diggers. Yes. Yeah, man. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:40:39] Benjamin: That's a big narrative. I mean that a lot.

That is it. It's,

[00:40:41] Jen: it's,

[00:40:41] Benjamin: yeah. It's still, it's still a big narrative online. I have absolutely

[00:40:44] Jen: said men are trash Me too. Sorry,

[00:40:48] Benjamin: not sorry. Sorry,

[00:40:49] Jen: not sorry.

[00:40:50] DeJah: Team men are trash over here. Okay. I'm dating them, so it's only fair I could say. Yeah, absolutely. I've seen their penises. I can make that call. Yeah,

[00:41:00] Jen: it is.

And I, I was reading something recently and I actually, I posted it to my Instagram story. It's how, you know, it really meant a lot to me. Um, because I've, for, I love like the people in my life that have been in very happy relationships long term, whether it's marriages or not, and they're like, so what is it about dating?

Like, why is it so hard? Like it's, they can't understand because they came, they got together at a time where online dating maybe like eHarmony in match.com mm-hmm. But Right. You know, and it's just, it's gosh And COVID, I feel like just. Definitely people make things exponentially worse. Yes. And um, I just was, this thing was just, I mean, there was a lot of different good talking points about it, but the overriding factor was like, this is why it's so hard.

Like everyone's exhausted of it. Everyone's pointing fingers at the other person they're trying to date, or the genre that they're trying to date mm-hmm. As the source and the reason, you know, women want to be independent and like all these things. Mm-hmm. But they also want the balance of the delicacy and being taken care of.

Mm-hmm. I don't think men know how to handle that or deal with that, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, and so it's just like this vicious cycle and so it's like. And I feel like we have to take a pause away from all the digital algorithm bullshit. Mm-hmm. And really try to find ways to reconnect in person. Yeah. Like to take that effort.

Oh, bless. I had these two very young gentlemen in one week. One was at a car wash that came up to me and like asked to take me out for coffee. And I was like, I'm pretty sure I could be like your way older sister, possibly your aunt, maybe your mom. But thank you so much. And also I was like, and up to you for like having the balls Absolutely.

To like come talk to somebody in person. Mm-hmm.

[00:42:30] Benjamin: Yeah.

[00:42:30] Jen: It also made me hopeful because my other concern. Which may be very fruitful for you

[00:42:35] Benjamin: mm-hmm.

[00:42:35] Jen: Is that you're gonna have this generation that have been born moving their thumbs on the texting keyboard, not actually flirting in person. You've had to get real rich dude.

Yeah. Legit. Yeah. As these people come of age of dating and everything, or I Sure it's already happening, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know. Do you have an answer?

[00:42:52] Benjamin: Oh my gosh, I have answers. I have questions as well. I mean, the, the, the one episode that keeps coming up a a, it's come up a few times, is the one that I did with this marketing expert.

Mm-hmm. The social media expert. Shout out to Sam. She's amazing. , And one of the things we talked about was the algorithm and just how the algorithm works and how it's kind of designed to be divisive to create these insular, insulated communities where you feel like everyone is sharing your same points of view and your same perspectives, because they have the same experiences, but it's really this tiny, tiny, tiny, very kind of niche.

Group that you're all just sharing the same things. Little echo chamber. Chamber, yes. It's your own echo chamber and you're not actually learning and be able to be curious and ask questions about the people that you may actually wanna be dating or be. Okay. So this is why

[00:43:40] DeJah: I think that I just scare the shit out people that's me flirting, right?

Because I'll come up and I'll just start talking, right? Mm-hmm. B, BB, B, B, BB. And they're not used to having someone just talk to them. Yeah. Right?

[00:43:54] Benjamin: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:55] DeJah: Like the, like saucer eyeballs where you, I'm like, what do I say?

[00:43:59] Benjamin: What do I

[00:43:59] DeJah: do? Yeah. Is, is she ai? What is happening? And so like I, you know, in the last couple years, just talk and then just went okay.

And then just turned around and walked away because I was just apparently. Too human. I don't,

[00:44:15] Benjamin: well, one of the thing, like when you're, all you're doing is texting and communicating digitally, it's, you have time to think about what you're gonna say and it's not in the moment. You don't have to read our, in our language, in our era, you know how many

[00:44:27] DeJah: tech pros we have around here and it was probably all tech pros that I was walking up to.

Yeah, right. You have no like interface ability, like Yes. Yes. So no that like, oh shit, she knows words.

[00:44:40] Benjamin: What happens next? Yes. Her mouth is movies. Do I say something now?

[00:44:46] Jen: We didn't text our location and where we were sitting at the bar before we

[00:44:49] DeJah: met. Right, right, right. But like I, that is a legitimate thing though, like that, , yeah.

Our younger generations are gonna feel no confidence in physically. Confidently talking to people in public. Like in general? In general. Not just for dating purposes, let alone the confidence of flirting with somebody. Yeah. Like I just see that as being mm-hmm. More and more of a societal issue. Shoot.

Yeah. One

[00:45:13] Benjamin: of the things I'm curious about and what I think is playing out in dating. Right now is this just this wanting instant gratification? Mm-hmm. Right. This, this ex, this expectation that it's all gonna happen very, very quickly. I think a lot of us have forgotten or maybe unlearned how to actually form relationships.

Yeah. And that they take time and they're not supposed to be convenient. They're not supposed to happen Exactly. When you want, how you want, they're gonna require that, you know, maybe you be available for a phone call or a FaceTime at 11 o'clock at night. Even when you're tired, you walk. Right, right, right.

When you're taking someone to the airport when it's not really great for your schedule or you're tired. Mm-hmm. Or you wanted to sleep in, relationships aren't supposed to be convenient. And this is a discourse, like a narrative I see online all the time is everyone wants to be, everyone wants to be a part of a village, but everyone, no one wants to be a villager.

Right. Yeah. Very true. I see some variation of that comment. Just a lot. And this is, relationships require a lot, not just vulnerability and honesty and transparency. They require our time. They require our ability to work through conflict and problem solve and be able to compromise, which are skills that are gonna be very hard to develop.

If you just exist like on Roblox or you're just playing video games all the time, that's not the same. No, it's not the same. The

[00:46:33] Jen: Sims people walking around. Not the same. Not the same. Nor

[00:46:36] DeJah: is the actual form of communication the same?

[00:46:38] Jen: No,

[00:46:39] DeJah: it's very, very aggressive. It's very like the online world and stuff compared to how, you know?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. You wouldn't kindly socially interact with someone. Yes. You give

[00:46:46] Jen: people grace, right? Yeah. Like in people and human interaction. Mm-hmm. No matter what the goal of the interaction is, whether it's business, familial, inter, you know, intimate partner, whatever. Mm-hmm. Generally you hope there's grace given in a conversation.

It's a volley that's back and forth. Yeah. Then in a text message to your point, you can think about what you say sometimes. I appreciate that because I've definitely learned Sure. That I'm the conflict resolution person of I need to take a beat before I respond.

[00:47:09] Benjamin: Yeah.

[00:47:10] Jen: , Because I like to see the other person's side of things, uhhuh to understand.

Don't feel like right in the moment. Mm-hmm. I can do that.

[00:47:17] Benjamin: Yeah.

[00:47:17] Jen: , But again, it's that communicating that not expecting the other person to understand that. , So there's that, that grace and that volley that's given back and forth in a conversation mm-hmm. To learn that person because hell, you can just chap be GPT it now as to like mm-hmm.

What should I say to this person and how should I say it?

[00:47:32] DeJah: Yeah. Which I know I have had, I have had, yeah. A man communicate with me mm-hmm. Using Chap GPT Oh yeah. Copy and paste or Gemini or one and paste how many copy past hundred percent Google, like whatever. Mm-hmm. Because if then I, 'cause I my dating rules or like, okay, so we talk via text, right?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's obviously through sites 'cause you can't meet people in real life. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and then we're gonna have a phone call because I'm not gonna meet you in person and waste my time if we can't even talk on the phone. Yes. Right? So, , if your. I don't know. Reading level, we'll say audibly is a lot lower Yeah.

Than you were in your text.

[00:48:14] Benjamin: Yeah. Or in Melbourne, maybe elementary school.

[00:48:16] DeJah: Get it like, but, and that is again a self-defeating act. Mm-hmm. It's not your honest, authentic self you're representing. Mm-hmm. You're letting AI date for you. And I see that also as a continuation and a problem. Mm-hmm. For people dating ai, period.

Yes. That's weird. We have fucking people in relationships with ai, so flirt coach, how to date with ai, how do you flirt with ai? How do you flirt with your fake partner? I mean,

[00:48:43] Benjamin: recognize it for what it is, and it can be a tool fair. Okay. It can be sometimes if you're like, oh, right, like how we just looked up that one statistic, right?

So like maybe you're having a conversation with someone and they make a reference to something, or you like, you feel like you have a thought or you have a flirt you wanna get to, but oh, could you workshop reword this a little bit? Like, that's all right. If it's gonna help you get outta your head a little bit, not relying on it 100% of the time.

Because when you're on a date in real life, which is what's gonna happen, have to happen. If you want a relationship, you can't pull out your phone and have your phone or whatever do have the conversation for you, right? Yeah. So using it as a little bit of a tool. Perhaps, but not relying on it, because you've got to be able to build that confidence within yourself to do it yourself.

[00:49:27] DeJah: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Because you have to carry the relationship on. Yeah. Right. They're gonna continue it

[00:49:33] Benjamin: like that. And just experience is gonna give you that. Just it's, this is where like maybe the yoga comes in a little bit. It's about being able to re-pattern and recalibrate your nervous system.

Mm-hmm. So if flirts always feel anxiety producing or flirts always feel maybe unsafe or uncomfortable, or that it always kind of brings about this feeling in your body like, oh, I don't want to do this again. That didn't feel right. Mm-hmm. Maybe getting attention or receiving attention from someone, A compliment.

Someone's asking you a question, they're right. They're talking to you and you feel like, oh my gosh, this is Uhuh. I don't like how this feels. Like, why? Right. How can we start to have your nervous system create a different experience for yourself? Mm-hmm. So you can be more in the moment, so you can get out of your head.

So you can more so feel your way through these things and be able to connect and have a conversation and converse with someone. Because that's, that's life. 'cause you are

[00:50:28] DeJah: worthy having that person communicate with you and you're worthy, worthy of

[00:50:31] Jen: communicating.

[00:50:32] DeJah: Yes,

[00:50:33] Jen: yes, yes. Yeah. And that was one thing recently that I was seeing, you know, obviously my algorithm is filled with like dogs and deer and the self-help stuff.

And, , this was talking about like people, they want a healed relationship, but they a healed and healthy relationship, but they don't wanna put in the work to, to be a healed and healthy person for a relationship. Yeah.

[00:50:53] DeJah: Which is especially difficult with men because again, social stigma of not seeking mental health help with men is a legitimate, serious problem.

[00:50:59] Benjamin: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:00] DeJah: Like so yes. Shout out to David who was on

[00:51:02] Jen: here with us several episodes ago. Genetic therapist. Yeah. He was cool. He was great from tumble. Yes. See, not all, not all things bad from Bumble. Right, right. Actually, two of my really good friends got married off with guys they met off of Bumble. So, um, listen, we understand it can happen, guys.

[00:51:20] DeJah: Like we get it. There's, it's a

[00:51:22] Jen: point before that statistic,

[00:51:24] DeJah: but Yeah,

[00:51:24] Jen: yeah, yeah. And the, oh gosh, and I wanted to come back this, 'cause I didn't wanna interrupt what you were saying, but the, the, the immediacy of everything, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's one thing that the internet in general has created as part of our culture.

Oh my gosh.

[00:51:36] Benjamin: Yeah.

[00:51:36] Jen: But then, and AI especially now too. Mm-hmm. But with dating apps too, it's just like the Nope, you got on my nerves, you know? Oh my gosh. Yeah. Delete, delete, swipe. Like whatever the Amazon

[00:51:47] Benjamin: notification of dating, like, we want two hour next day delivery. Right. The second someone says, like, they talk weird, they like, oh, they drove what kind of car?

Like, oh, they wore what? Like, oh, gone, like deleted the guy.

[00:52:02] DeJah: Nightdale was ick. Oh yes. I never talked to him again. Yeah, that's because I was like, my best friend lives there. You can't say that about my best friend Sydnee probably a perfectly decent human being. I didn't give a chance, but, you

[00:52:16] Jen: know. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and I was listening to, , a Diary of a CEO, I dunno if you've ever listened to that podcast, Uhhuh, but they had, , this PhD level researcher that, for, that she works for Hinge and she was talking about the iic. Mm-hmm. Which is what we're talking about. Right. These different things. And, which is real though.

It is, yeah. It, it is real. But I loved her point and she actually made me kind of started thinking about things differently. 'cause she was like, some of the things that we get so caught up on that we call the ich, she was like. They're changeable. And I don't, she didn't mean that in the way of like, you're gonna walk in and change somebody.

Yeah. But the example she gave Uhhuh was that this girl was on a date with with Sky, and that he pulled out his wallet to pay and it was a Velcro wallet and she thought that that was the ick. And so she never went out with him again. And she was like, you can buy him a wallet as a gift. Right. Or like, you can laugh about it.

She's like, that's not a foundational thing about a person. You know,

[00:53:03] Benjamin: I can just picture like they went.

[00:53:05] Jen: Exactly.

[00:53:06] DeJah: I was literally thinking about the ASMR Velcro sound. I would've been like,

[00:53:09] Benjamin: Ooh. Right. Vintage. Where did you get that? Right. Where do you keep your license in that thing? That's right.

[00:53:15] Jen: Yeah. It takes me back to my least my.

Was it Lisa Frank, the Trapper keeper? Oh hell yes. Oh yeah, absolutely.

[00:53:20] Benjamin: The colors. I had those for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Unicorns baby. But I mean, the reality is whoever you date and whoever you're in a relationship with, they're gonna annoy the crap outta you. Yeah, yeah. So at some point get used to it. Yeah, absolutely.

And just be able to differentiate what is an ick, something like, oh my God, a Velcro wallet really from an actual ick deal breaker or non-negotiable. Right. Someone that is. Still in a relationship. Right. That's a deal breaker. Yeah. Someone who's disrespectful deal breaker,

[00:53:48] DeJah: like Yeah. Doesn't wash one's ass.

Deal breaker. Deal breaker. Which is a thing. It's a real thing a lot of straight guys do. That's what I'm saying. Heterosexual men ruin it

[00:53:56] Benjamin: for everyone. They just like top up and just let the soap drip down. Damn gross. It's gross.

[00:54:01] Jen: Moving on. Yeah. And I think it's also like recognizing I, and I'm saying this 'cause I recently had this experience, met a great guy actually in real life.

Mm. And we were compatible in so many ways. Mm-hmm. But it was just, I came to the conclusion and, and we lived several hours apart, so it was very slow going, but it was great, right? Mm-hmm. Because we're both independent, got our own things going on in our lives. Mm-hmm. So it was great. And I finally came to the conclusion that like he was just squarely in the friend zone.

Mm-hmm. Like there wasn't that intimate partner, like sexual chemistry or desire on my behalf. Yeah. And it sucked because I was like, I think I was really trying to convince myself otherwise because I was like, damnit, he's such a good dude. That was our

[00:54:38] DeJah: year. We both had, that's what we both tried this year.

Yeah. Was to date someone who was not our type. Oh. Was like mentally. Okay. Ev everything we would put down on paper. Right. Okay. But physically, physically, not the time much. Not our like sexual, attractive type. Okay. So we, we tried. We did. You

[00:54:53] Benjamin: tried. We

[00:54:53] DeJah: tried. Honestly. Good for you for trying. Yeah.

[00:54:55] Benjamin: Thank you.

Thank you. Thank

[00:54:56] DeJah: you for

[00:54:56] Benjamin: that. And for talking about it. 'cause that's one of the questions I get all the time is like, how, like, how much time do I give it? Mm-hmm. Like, should attraction be immediate? What if the spark isn't there right away? What if there's not chemistry? Like just on that first date? Or even like before you even get to the first date in text, right.

On a match. Like you're on the apps or something like that. Like how much, how much time do you give it? And it's like, well,

[00:55:19] DeJah: that's fair. That's

[00:55:20] Jen: a good question. Yeah.

[00:55:21] DeJah: So I, but if you're not getting the ick, you keep going. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. Like keep investigating. But then if you start to, but if

[00:55:28] Jen: you

[00:55:28] DeJah: start

[00:55:28] Jen: to

[00:55:28] DeJah: get like ick, then you're like, oh, okay.

Well yeah. Right, right. For me, it

[00:55:32] Jen: was really because there was some flirt, flirting going on. But again, I'm just an, an outgoing person. And then it kind of got to the point of really just sexual nature that I was like, I just have zero desire to see you unclosed like that. That's what came, and I was like, this is gonna go, you're giving real brother energy now.

You know what I, you know what I mean?

[00:55:48] Benjamin: And that can happen. Yep. Because there's all these different layers to attraction. It's not just physical. Correct. It's that intellectual. It's that emotional. And so it's about knowing how you date and form relationships and sort of how much time you may want to give somebody.

Where, like for me. I need some of that emotional, intellectual, kind of energetic mm-hmm. Attraction chemistry first before I even would want to explore or am able to explore physical. So like, I gotta give it at least a couple, three dates max. Like if I don't kind of want in my mind, wanna jump your bones a little bit after date three.

Same. I'm exactly the same. It's not gonna work. I'm gonna just have to be like, thanks to things I very much am like

[00:56:27] DeJah: safe, bisexual. Yes. Right. Yeah. So if you, I mean that's again why I was like, oh, I could, I could date somebody who I'm not immediately physically attracted to because your brain can turn me on.

Yeah. Right. And then you, I can teach you to do the things I like. Right? Yeah.

[00:56:40] Benjamin: So.

[00:56:41] DeJah: Right. So, you know, yeah. I think there is something valid to like, trying to break outside of your box mm-hmm. That you may put yourself in, especially as we get a little bit older. Mm-hmm. We all change as we age, but, , I am proud of us and I think that, you know, continuing to identify like.

What was I limiting myself physically by? Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Have I turned away other potential partners? Yeah. Because of a physical identifier that I. Thought I needed, but actually didn't.

[00:57:06] Benjamin: And this is where the expectation piece can come into play too, because you just, because you experience attraction in one way, we can't expect someone you're going on a date with to experience it in the exact same way.

Right. So giving people just a little bit of patience, a little bit of the benefit of that, of the doubt, some understanding, but also it's not as if you're not having conversations and communicating through this. Yes. Mm-hmm. And so being able to talk about some of these things that you're thinking about in a way that feels like it's gonna be probably scary regardless.

But if you want a relationship, if that's why you're dating. Then even if it's a situationship, our relationship of any kind. Yeah. You like, you have to do these things. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:49] Jen: I think one of the biggest things my therapist has told me is that has resonated with me probably this last year, is like, just because it's not right now doesn't mean it's not ever.

[00:57:56] Benjamin: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:57] Jen: And I've really tried to take that into the dating world of like, just because you didn't show up on the first date and wanna rip his clothes off or kiss his face doesn't mean that you're not ever going to wanna do that. Or just because this one didn't work out doesn't mean the next one won't.

Or something like that. So, absolutely. That's been, I don't know if that'll help anybody out there listening, but just because not right now doesn't mean not ever just by yourself. Unless you're like

[00:58:17] DeJah: me,

[00:58:18] Benjamin: unless you're move

[00:58:19] Jen: off the market, unless you're a sexual partner. Just

[00:58:21] Benjamin: never. Yeah. I mean, one of the, the guests on my podcast, , Lily Womble was, you know, just talking about heartbreak and how to, how to begin again, how to stay hopeful and keep that belief.

And, and one of the things she said is, there's so many people you haven't met yet. Mm-hmm. Right? There's so many people, you haven't gone on a date with so many people that you haven't. Flirted with yet. And so there are still gonna be those experiences to come.

[00:58:45] Jen: Yeah.

[00:58:45] Benjamin: Yeah. That was one thing I thought was that was great.

[00:58:47] Jen: It is. And, and, and I know this sounds cliche, but like dating yourself, like Yep. I love, love going to a brewery and like taking a book and just like taking myself on like a afternoon beer date or, you know, going to the movies by myself. Yes. Or self-care day by myself. Whatever the case I'm, starts with myself.

Whatever the case may be. Like dating yourself Yep. Is also fantastic because if you don't learn what you like Uhhuh, how are you gonna be able to tell somebody

[00:59:09] DeJah: else? Yeah. The most powerful thing, and this is for the ladies, the most powerful thing that you can do for yourself is to buy fancy fucking dress.

Mm-hmm. Take yourself out for dinner. Take yourself out to theater. Yeah. Take yourself out for a fancy fucking night out. Treat yourself the way that you want to be treated. Yeah. You don't actually have to talk to anybody other than your server. Right. But have a great time and go home knowing. You looked good.

You felt good. Mm-hmm. You did it for yourself, whether anybody said anything to you or not. Mm-hmm. You felt good. Mm-hmm And I'm very, again, this back to that, you gotta tell yourself that you love yourself. You gotta flirt with yourself. You gotta love yourself first. 'cause the etiology of the flirt coach is self love.

[00:59:51] Jen: So I do have, we, I don't wanna soak up all, all your cookies here 'cause I want people to, if they're, you know, that's alright. We

[00:59:58] Benjamin: put them okay with that.

[01:00:01] Jen: But one thing that your, your podcast opener says, which I know that your podcast is on a pause right now. Yes, it is. It's just a pause, but there's so much pause.

Good content. Pause. Yes. Everybody still go check it out. It is, it's

[01:00:12] Benjamin: plenty of episodes. It's

[01:00:13] Jen: funny. It is. I mean, it's just great. It's got a lot of great content. And, but part of what you say on there is that d Lulu is a sa Lulu, yeah. So will you please expand him on that? Because that made me smile every time I heard it.

Oh,

[01:00:25] Benjamin: yes. D Lulu is the sa Lulu, I didn't come up with that. IJII don't know who originated it. I heard it somewhere and it just, it stuck. I think it really fits with the flirt. D Lulu being delusion. Right? Is the sa lulu the solution. Like it's, it's, sometimes you gotta fake it till you make it. A little bit.

You gotta believe in what could be believe in the possible, even if you haven't experienced it yet. Even if you don't have evidence in your life that, oh, like a flirt went well, or, oh, the match or the date, or whatever. Just have a little bit of that delusional belief that it could happen and it could happen because you're deserving of it.

And you get to have those experiences and you get to have it happen. And so something that, that I hope that does is get you outta your head and into your heart a little bit more, get you out of this over analyzing, overthinking, like just analytical mind going all the time and more so bring you into the moment so you can, you can feel your way through a lot of these experiences and rely on.

That d Lulu. I mean, when I started my podcast, I was scared, but I always say future award winning. Why not? Absolutely, right. Yeah. You just, you have to tap into that confidence that you have within yourself and just give yourself those opportunities to do the things that you want to do, even if they're scary, even if you're not good at it, even if they don't.

Go right or perfect. It's just, it's all a practice. Right? That's what we say in yoga. It's all a practice. Yes.

[01:01:53] Jen: Sometimes you just wanna die when you're in hot yoga too, but that's fine. But you, you make it, you up get back up live to die another day. That's right. Mm-hmm. , Gosh, I can't thank you enough for sharing all this stuff.

So, flirtation, flirt, cast, uhhuh, everybody please go check it out is wonderful. , If you, especially if you love just a snippet of what you heard today from Benjamin. Yes. I promise you. Yes. This is over. Are we saying yourself? Goodbye yourself. We don't have to.

[01:02:16] Benjamin: It's has gone by so quickly.

[01:02:18] Jen: And it has, it has, yeah.

For those, , people that don't like to read, , because we're gonna tag you in all of the things I did. , But how do, how do, it's not that they don't like to, they just don't know how to deja, , credit where credit is too. It's the reading levels, right? Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. , How do people find you on the things.

[01:02:34] Benjamin: I'm on all the platforms at Benjamin Cameras is, it's my name flirt Talk Flirt, Instagram, flirt Tube, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, the Flirt Cast Apple, Spotify. You can watch a lot of episodes on YouTube and even though the podcast, the Flirt cast is on a pause at the moment, I'm working on getting back episodes up there so you can watch them.

If you would like, , please check out the content. , Leave me, , send me a message. Leave me a comment. I'm checking the comments and all of that. , And if you wanna work together, there's some freebies. We can do calls. There's downloads. All of that good stuff is there for you if you want it. 'cause I just want people to.

Flirt more for sure. But it's about that practice of connection. I'm, I've shared on my podcast, just my own experience and, and just, yeah. Experience with mental health, which is something I continue to experience, like day in and day out. And one thing that always got me outta my head, even just got me outta my apartment for a moment, was running an errand.

Doing the solo date, taking myself out, just getting outta my house. Mm-hmm. Putting on some real clothes, right. Taking a shower and just acknowledging someone else. Smiling is one of the greatest antidepressants in the whole world. Oh my gosh. Humor. I bet if you smile at someone, you don't have to say anything.

Just smile at them. Perhaps they smile back. They probably will. And just notice how much better you feel. Yep. It changes your energy. And when that becomes a practice, and then you start building, ooh, some conversation, a question, an observation, some storytelling, talking about yourself, a compliment, letting go of those expectations.

Looking to create a little bit of that connection and just see where it goes. Maybe you learn something new about yourself. You make a new friend, you have find something in common. You learn about something happening in your town, a concert, wherever, a new movie to watch. Maybe it leads to a date. You never know.

[01:04:21] Jen: Well, Benjamin, you've inspired me to get back out there and flirt. Yes. I told myself I'm probably gonna wait until after the new year 'cause it's the holidays. Nobody wants to start something right now, but, but you're, I just, I love your energy, , and thank you for the goodness that you were spreading into the world for everyone.

, Thank you

[01:04:36] DeJah: for helping train the heterosexual men. I'm,

[01:04:40] Jen: there's some good ones out there. And the non-sexual folks too, because

[01:04:45] DeJah: I'm just saying for us, man. Well, fair enough.

[01:04:48] Jen: I mean, we

[01:04:49] DeJah: all

[01:04:49] Jen: want the same things. It's true. It, we really do. We are there. There's one other thing. I know we we're starting to wrap this up, but it, we're bringing it back.

We do this, , talking about the. Different things that are, that are getting in the way of dating and stuff right now. And I think one, I don't wanna speak for you, but we've talked about this. I feel like you agree. , As I look at Deja for, those are not in the studio with us. Me, she looked at guys, , she and I are in this place of I don't wanna call it hyper independence, but there's a song that I love.

One of the lines is I'm codependent with my independence.

[01:05:16] Benjamin: Mm. Mm-hmm. And she

[01:05:17] Jen: and I have gotten to this place that we're so happy and at peace Yeah. Where we are in life. Yeah. That I think it's almost made dating a little bit harder for us. Mm-hmm. Because I was like, we're like. We don't want this to be disrupted.

We wanna give

[01:05:29] DeJah: up our peace. Mm-hmm. We

[01:05:30] Jen: like, we're at the same, same or very similar stages in life. And so like we go on trips together, like we call each other our life wife. Yep.

[01:05:36] Benjamin: Yes.

[01:05:37] Jen: And so we, we get to have all of this fun and then it's like, and then we go on dates and it's like, fuck, that just really ruined, like this fantastic energy I have going on in my life.

And so, I don't know, what would you, we'll put you on the hot seat. What would you say to me and Daja for those of us who are like, you will not mess up my piece, but we also, we wanna date.

[01:05:56] Benjamin: Good. Keep going with that because it's gonna, like, you've really been working on the self-love piece, on the healing piece, creating relationships outside of dating, and now you're probably gonna have a better idea of what it is you're looking for.

Mm-hmm. At least what it is you're not looking for. And so your standards are just like some of the things that maybe you would've put up with or given grace to, or the benefit of the doubt to earlier in dating. You're not gonna do anymore. And this is great because it's gonna save you time. It's gonna save your energy, save you energy.

You're not gonna get as burnout, as overwhelmed, as as frustrated. So this is great, but then keep saying, say yes to the times and the opportunities when you do get to go to an event and then flirt with one person. Make eye contact with one person. Have a conversation with one person. You don't have to be on the apps at all, but say yes to those things, saying yes to yourself first.

That are gonna put you in situations and in environments where you do get to meet people and then catching a flirt or two and giving it a little bit of time, right? Mm-hmm. Texting for a moment, setting up that date pretty quickly. 'cause you don't want the whole thing just to be on your phone, right? Sure.

Yeah. So getting to the date, you know, relatively quickly and then seeing where it goes. You keep showing up as you and how you wanna show up, being your, your best partner first, and then that's ultimately going to attract the people that you are looking to. Date and flirt with, and then a little bit of luck too.

Yeah, right. The luck and timing piece is right. There gotta be some serendipity that

[01:07:27] Jen: kind of plays into that anxious

[01:07:28] Benjamin: luck and timing the the two intangibles and dating, I can't tell you when Warehouse. Right,

[01:07:33] Jen: right, right. Well apparently I'm going out on Franklin Street this weekend, so y'all just send me all the four leaf flips.

Right, right, right. I don't know. This's gonna be a lot of Chads and Brads.

[01:07:42] Benjamin: Oh, a few. And they're gonna be in their Santa costumes, aren't they?

[01:07:45] Jen: Yeah. Gonna hard fast on that. Oh my God. I also love that you call your listeners the Flirty. Yes. We've got the Ramblers. You've got the flirty Love, love. So now we're just flirty ramblers.

Yes.

[01:07:56] Benjamin: The dream crossover. I love it. Ramblers. That Make a good country song,

[01:08:03] Jen: slap a banjo, a dog and a truck in there

[01:08:07] Benjamin: Ramblers. There's the vocal hook.

[01:08:11] Jen: Yep.

[01:08:11] Benjamin: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:12] Jen: Yep. We got it. Love it. Love it. Oh goodness. Any, any last? What do you, oh shit. I forgot we had questions. Oh my God. I'm so sorry. My life wife is

[01:08:21] DeJah: not doing her job today.

Okay. I'm sorry. Please don't divorce me. My apologies.

[01:08:26] Jen: Okay. Gosh, it's been so long. I'm out of practice. We haven't had a guest in so long. Um, okay. So we do ask all of our guests three questions.

[01:08:33] Benjamin: Okay.

[01:08:34] Jen: , That you completed on your questionnaire. Thank you for following instructions. Also, you couldn't save it until you did.

So. Alright, here we go. Is a hot dog a sandwich?

[01:08:44] Benjamin: I said no because it's not sandwich shaped. It's, I almost said yes. I did have to think about it for a moment. 'cause there is a bun with something in between.

[01:08:52] Jen: Yes.

[01:08:52] Benjamin: So. Sandwich. Like,

[01:08:55] Jen: okay. Adjacent.

[01:08:56] Benjamin: Adjacent. But it's, it's just think about you have to eat it. You can't.

That's

[01:09:00] Jen: the most Libra answer ever. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. But also I say, yes, it is a sandwich. Everyone else. Yeah. I say no, except

[01:09:05] Benjamin: for I'm with you on that. Except for

[01:09:07] Jen: Joe's wife. She's holding

[01:09:10] DeJah: claim. We don't have the first person answer, but we're all non Joseph. No, Chris,

[01:09:17] Jen: Chris that we had in the podcast, he said that I have like two people in my camp.

One of it I direction met, still met in real life.

[01:09:23] Benjamin: I, I mean, you could argue it either way. Yeah. It's funny. Yeah.

[01:09:27] Jen: All right, so we got another, we've, I'm gonna start a third column. Hot, hot dog adjacent or the sandwich adjacent. , Okay. What is the last song? This may have changed. Did you fill this out? But what's the last song that got stuck in your head?

[01:09:38] Benjamin: Oh, on the way here. Call me Baby. Came on my playlist. We, I forgot how much I love that song. Yes. It's gonna be replaying in my head for that's, that's at least a few days. That's f fantastic.

[01:09:48] Jen: That's a, that's a easy one to get stuck in your head too. It's so

[01:09:50] Benjamin: flirty. It's so fun. It was the perfect song to come on.

Nice. It was, yeah. What

[01:09:54] Jen: you put on here was, can't get You outta my head. The Carly Carly note.

[01:09:58] Benjamin: I Kylie. That one also gets stuck in my head, which is perfect.

[01:10:01] Jen: A perfect answer for that. Awesome. , All right, the last one, what's the last thing that made you go, Hmm.

[01:10:07] Benjamin: I mean, I think I said driving.

[01:10:09] Jen: You said, every time I drive my car, oh my God.

Just

[01:10:11] Benjamin: really what you've decided to leave your house today and do that cut me off. Yeah. So

[01:10:18] Jen: true. Yeah. It's, I thought that as well. Mm-hmm. On the way here, like, I got in my car and I was like, I'm gonna be early. I'm gonna be there 15 minutes early so I can make my hot chocolate with Peppermint RumChata.

Yes. Have plenty of time. I get my car and I hit the, it's like you're gonna be there at 3 59. And I was like, what the, I was like, it's not even rush hour traffic. And honestly. Capital Was it? That's, that was the issue. Not the highway capital. Those of you that do not live in the area, dunno what that is.

But yeah, yeah. Pretty much. And then there's the, the school. How dare people that God did kids go to school? I got caught in crumble, crumble

[01:10:51] DeJah: shakes, old lady fist.

[01:10:52] Jen: Yeah. My issue

[01:10:53] Benjamin: was just turning on, call me maybe too loud and then I miss my exit.

[01:10:57] Jen: That's valid. That's excusable. That happens. Whoops. That happens to the best of us when we're singing.

It's, yeah. Oh goodness. Okay. I made it through my questions. Thanks buddy. Well this has been really fun. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. It's fantastic.

[01:11:09] Benjamin: So, so much for having me on. Really grateful to be here. My first ever in studio. Recording experience. Oh. So I was a little nervous at first. I gotta be honest. But I think we settled in, or at least I, yeah, definitely started to feel a little better.

And I hope people just feel more inspired. The ramblers feel more, more inspired to, inspired to just flirt. Yes, absolutely. I love it.

[01:11:29] DeJah: .

All right. Everyone, make sure that you remember to love yourselves first, because you can't give to anyone else until you have completed you.

Mm-hmm. But remember, just keep that sassy rambling on. Love you. Bye.