Ramblings of a Restless Mind

22 Ramblings of a Restless Mind
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[00:00:00]

DeJah: Hello again. Welcome the ramblings of a restless mind as you enter into our madness.

Jen: We, uh, we're here. We, we are ready.

DeJah: We had to do a spontaneous guest switch. So we, we do apologize for our interesting entrance. Um, yeah. Yeah.

Jen: We

DeJah: were a

Jen: little discombobulated.

Mm-hmm. Our, as I've heard days, just say before our flappers were gassed. That's right. [00:01:00] Um, so PSA, yeah. If you commit to say that you're gonna do something like, we understand life happens. Life happens a lot. It does. But if you commit, you respond, you fill out the things, you accept calendar invites, and you don't show up after being, being given more than one chance.

Fuck off. I, it's like, I don't know how else to say it. Like, yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

DeJah: It's like putting in a like effort again and Yeah. No, no, no. It's, um, well, you know, just kind of basic courtesy stuff. Well, yeah. We try to help, you wanna get promoted like we wanted to, you know? Yeah. Give us symbiotic relationship and we can say that we tried our very best.

So we did,

Jen: we did. This is a passion project. Uh, maybe one day revenue generator. Yeah. We would, we would love for that. Absolutely. So if anyone's listening and would love to sponsor us, we'd love to have you

, but we have got a fantastic guest.

Yes. [00:02:00] Who should have been number one anyway. I'm not even gonna say this is our backup. This should have been our primary.

DeJah: If there was a podcast Emmy nomination for producing and directing and all of the things that award should go to, what, what was his, was his

Jen: legal name again? That award would a go to DJ Joey. Woo.

Joe: That's, that's, I don't know why you're laughing. That's my actual DJ name. Is it really? No.

Jen: If you couldn't tell, it's Joe.

Yes, it's me. It's me, Joseph. No,

Joe: it's me. It's a good thing. We can still be racially slur to Italians. They're like the last accessible group. Yeah, right.

Jen: It's a me. Well, yeah, we don't care. That's not a spaghetti race, is it?

Joe: No, I think that's, no, it like, it is racial, but it, I, no, I think it's

DeJah: more stereotyping than maybe racial stereotyping.

Definitely. Like you sound like Mario, you know, so I Italian in me. I'm okay. I can do it. That's all right. There you go. If you didn't, if you didn't, does your [00:03:00] wife have some?

Jen: Yeah, yeah. Eh, does your wife wants, if Jo's wife ever listens to this, but she's not, but if she ever does, she'd be like, why do I get brought into this show?

She won. But I'm sure

Joe: my kids after I'm dead will find it.

Jen: Yes. And be

Joe: like, oh dad.

Jen: So we thought since, you know, we've got the Oz himself over here. Yes. The man behind the curtain that makes the, the technology things happen for us. That, uh, you know, we maybe should ask him some questions.

DeJah: let's get to Must Joe, let's do, yes, let's do it. Yeah. Yes.

Jen: so when we send this questionnaire, it is self filled out. I just would like to put that disclaimer out there. Um, so DJ Joey Woo, which is, it's my DJ name, but I'm good. So I

Joe: played, there was a short stint in time this is like 1999.

Yes. I was playing, I bought Okay. Prince, a big old coffin. And I would go to the record store and I would buy like Herbie Hancock records and all the classic stuff. Like, you know, like the one lady that sang the one line [00:04:00] on Mama's Gonna Knock you out, you know, like all the classic break stuff. And I played in a band, with drums, guitarists, singers, everything.

And it was a worship band at a church, but. Which is has no business having a dj, but I was like, I'm doing this.

Scribbling for the Lord. There'd be like, yeah, exactly. There would be like a, there would be like a little break in between the chorus and the verse and I would be like, you know, like stuff like that.

Ridiculous. Shouldn't have been a thing. So anyways. I wasn't a good dj. I just learned, I thought this is fun. And so I bought a new record, and we were doing this worship song, you know, in church and if you're a dj, you're supposed to, you're supposed to cue stuff up so that you know what's coming.

Uhhuh. I had got my records confused. I thought the white noise was on one side, you got a fader. And so one side is words and one side is white noise. And I was gonna do that. Like, that was my fill I was gonna do, but I, I got them confused and I was like, which fuck?

Everybody's looked at me like, that's weird. So I took the record off and I just nailed it to the wall. I'm [00:05:00] like, that one's done. We don't use that one no more.

Jen: Oh my God.

That

Joe: was my DJ story.

Jen: DJ Joey, GOD is what it sounds like.

DeJah: Woo. Woo. Yeah.

Jen: Oh, very nice. That is.

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Jen: Okay. A little bit about yourself, man. You went all out with this one, Joe, you press buttons.

Joe: I do.

Jen: That's

Joe: basically my job.

DeJah: Well, I mean, fair. So do, uh, do you invest in a lot of chiropractic hand work or hand massage for your position? No. What, what do you do to be able to reinforce what your, your gifts are

Jen: and do you press, when you say you press buttons, do you press.

Literal and

Joe: yeah, all of 'em. Uhhuh, metaphorical bus buttons. Mm-hmm.

Jen: Okay. Got it. Got it, got it. Really

Joe: introspective my company. I do a lot of shows. I do a lot of video work. , I build a lot of websites. Everything that I do involves screens and buttons.

Yes. And I try to make other people look good.

Jen: All, all I heard was not my gum drop buttons. Not my buttons. Yes. [00:06:00] Jy. So how did you get into. All, 'cause I've known you for several years because my first podcast experiences Sure. With my, my previous the law firm that I worked with, which was fantastic.

That is a great podcast actually. If you need a resource for all things, family, law, divorce, whatever. And it's very satirical and funny and there's no filter. The exit strategy Yes. Available

Joe: wherever you get your podcasts.

Jen: Yes. The exit strategy. Shout, shout out. New direction, family law. Um, so anyway, how did you get it?

Because I feel like I've been on this journey with you a little bit because when I first met with you, it was at this shared space next to Dave and Buster's in the

Joe: mall. Right. Did you guys record in the closet or was I in a bigger room? By the time you guys joined,

Jen: you were in the bigger room by the time we joined.

But you had just moved there because our first meeting was in the closet.

Joe: I was so stubborn to bootstrap my company that I rented out a closet. Yeah. In the networking space. Yes. At Epic. And uh, it was like, it. Eight feet wide by five feet wide. And I built a podcast studio in there until I made enough money to afford an [00:07:00] actual room.

Yep.

Jen: The place. And I remember going from like, because it was still like a co, like there were other people in there. And so we had to like walk past, Hey, how you doing? Hi, how are you? You know, to get back to the studio. By the time we recorded the first recorded the first episode, though, it was back, we had more space.

Joe: Mm-hmm.

Jen: Um, you still had all the records and stuff. Like, I'm glad that you've kept that theme throughout your spaces. Yeah. And then the mall that you were in

Joe: just died

Jen: just got completely torn down

Joe: as malls do. Yes. Right,

Jen: right. Um, we had

Joe: like a, I think I had like three weeks notice. They're like, Hey, they're, we're gone.

Jen: They're kicking us out. Well, what was funny is after the last episodes that we recorded in that space, me and, uh, Sarah and Elizabeth, the two managing partners of New Direction, we went outside and like opened a bottle of wine like Cheersing to try not Triangle Town Center to Carry Town Mall. Tear Town Mall.

Joe: Yeah.

Jen: Uh, 'cause it was getting ready to get torn down right after that they fell and down. They're both like natives to the Raleigh carrier area. I felt like it was like a landmark. Yeah, yeah. Um, [00:08:00] and then that's still

Joe: nothing.

Jen: Yeah. God. And then you came here, but you were in a different room across, on the other side and there were a few other businesses here.

Joe: Yeah. So what happened was, I was in a coworking space for women, but they were kind enough to let me join. It was a women-centric coworking space. Like if

DeJah: this man is renting a closet will accept it. And I was like, I was like, yeah,

Joe: but uh, how much is that closet though? And, uh, maybe they thought I was closeted, so I was gonna say, yeah, there you go.

Jen: It's been a very cool transformation to see you go from the original space that you were in, in this building, and then to

Joe: I built and rebuilt the studios in here too many times.

Jen: Yeah.

Joe: But now, now I have

Jen: even I have seen this change.

Yes. Yeah. In the last year, just about that we've been in here. Yes.

Joe: I'm a big, I'm a big fan of that idea that if you get 1% better a week. You get like, you know, 50% better a year kinda thing. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. So I'm always trying to just make things incrementally better. Mm-hmm.

Jen: Nice. Yeah. I mean, and you've got the, um, well, I appreciate that you have a fridge so that Deja and I can keep our bees in there as opposed to having [00:09:00] to walk in here with coolers anymore.

Um, and then, because you, when we first, when I first started working with you, you were audio only. Yeah. And then you brought in video, which eventually, maybe Deja and I will get there. I was

Joe: doing podcasting before, before podcasts were cool. So before I started the company, I was always doing tech stuff, but I was a pastor for a long time.

And then I, I was in what, a denomination that was called a cooperative fellowship, and I stopped cooperating, so we stopped fellowshipping and that is fucking hilarious. Hilarious. You can't wait to talk about that more. Oh my lord. Teaser. I. So then I went and I was, I didn't wanna work at a church, and I was like, I'm not gonna work at a church.

And then we moved to Raleigh and I was like working at a church. But I started a blog and it did pretty well. It was called Marketing Jesus. And I monetized it and I was just basically reviewing people's churches and looking at the idea of marketing through the lens of faith, which man Christians aren't good at satire.

And it was just jokey and fun, but I, it got popular. And, um, that's what ended up getting me a job. So I was working at a local mega church I was gonna [00:10:00] do the communications team.

So I ran that for a while and by the time I left, I was the executive creative director. I was over everything you see, touch or click at this church with a $20 million budget the year I was there.

Jen: Jesus. Mm-hmm. That not shocked.

Joe: So it was, it was a big job and a ton of fun. And I got to meet a ton of creative people in the triangle. My kids were getting older, college age. Um, my dad was dying. It was a rough season of life. I wasn't doing the best job at work. And it just kind of made sense that, hey, maybe now's a good time to part ways.

, I think like eight months before I did this thing where Bob Dumas, you know the G 1 0 5 guy? Mm-hmm. Nice guy. He knew our pastor at the time, his name was Mike. And Bob had built a radio studio on his land out in Apex backup.

Yep. he got the boot, didn't he? He did eventually. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. But so we actually did a podcast with Mike and Bob called, I think it was, we just called it something great like Mike and Bob. Listen, Bob and Mike, I remember it was one of those and we did it and I think we did like 50 episodes.

You can't [00:11:00] find 'em anywhere now. But they did really well. 'cause Bob Dumas is super interesting. The church had about 10,000 people and it was a fun show to, and, uh, I learned a lot about radio from Bob and I was like, I think I could do this podcasting thing. Mm. Um, you know, this, this typical. Shock Jock radio formula.

You need a do a deer and a dick, and this is how you keep a show moving. And I just, it was ton of, it was a ton of fun. And so I, I left the church, this was about eight, nine years ago,

and I called a friend of mine and I was like, I just wanna do something. We should do something. And so it took about eight minutes to be like, we should do podcast. And so I went and borrowed a bunch of equipment and the next day we did the first episode of guys who do stuff.

Jen: I was gonna ask you if you still have that po if you guys still do that podcast.

We

Joe: We will do it every once in a while if we feel like something is worth doing, but we haven't really done it in a long time. But that was super interesting. What I learned about podcasting was that it's really not anything other than for what I was using at Ford Networking.

I couldn't get meetings to build [00:12:00] websites with big companies in the triangle. 'cause I was a single person. I was a little burnt out on the way I was used to run a team. I wanna be the guy doing this stuff, pressing the buttons, not the guy managing the people who get to do the things I wanna do. So I kind of have been very anti hiring people and expanding my company.

Mm-hmm. Um, I don't even really call it a company.

Jen: Do you have control issues?

Joe: Probably. There's probably deep seated control issues in there and we'll talk more about it if I get a couch. If I get a couch. But,

we started that show and we got like crazy guests in my basement where my dogs were jumping on 'em. They'd come and like really nice cars with really nice suits. It was like guys that built most of the skyscrapers in downtown Raleigh, Micro Medical. And I started selling websites, these guys, and I realized podcasting was a Trojan horse.

The five minutes after the thing, I was like, oh, if there's a relationship here, hey, I also do these things if you ever need 'em. And then it led to work.

Jen: Mm-hmm. Nice. That's how it works. How we networking. That's how I kind of

Joe: built the thing up it took me like years before I was like, I wonder if I should make other people's [00:13:00] shows.

And then turns out I really enjoy that more than having to come up with it and talk about stuff.

Jen: Yeah, I mean in the like, I mean the power of. Networking to your point, because the way that I found out about you was then you guys' counterpart podcast girls who do stuff.

Joe: Right. I met, which we needed to do. 'cause I realized very quickly and I told Josh and we had these two lovely women that did it Jen and Sarah. And I said, here's the problem nobody gives a shit about two middle-aged white guys having success. Yeah. It's not compelling. It's not interesting.

It's like, okay. And so girls who do stuff much more popular.

Jen: Yes. Yeah. And I, we were at a network joint networking meeting. I'd never met her before. And um, I think she mentioned something about her podcast and we were at the law firm. We were just starting to like talk about, we were on the cusp of like, we either wanna like write a book as material for people, like clients or potential clients or whatever, or podcasts.

And I was much more like, podcast sounds way more fun. Mm-hmm. And, [00:14:00] um, because it was gonna be no filter, it was gonna be a very like layman's terms way of talking about a very real issue that affects a lot of people in the world. So anyway, so podcast route, it went and, um, obviously, and because she was there that day and mentioned her podcast and I was like, Hey, we're thinking about this in the firm actually very, very, you know, early, early stages of brainstorming.

Who do you use your beans? And she told me that here we are.

Joe: That's how the company's grown. I, I don't market. I'm kind of like the cobbler's kids don't have shoes scenario. Even though I help people with their marketing, I do none myself. I don't advertise anywhere. I finally put a sign on the fricking building this year. Proud of you.

Jen: And talking about like social media. 'cause you used to have social media.

I did. Used to, yeah. I used to try to tag you and it did nothing, but Yeah. But you said as a, because one of the questions is, please listen to social media platforms, website, blah, blah, blah. And you said, I haven't tweeted since 2009.

Joe: Yeah. I got way into it when social media came out. I thought it was interesting.

I think I grew my Twitter following up to [00:15:00] like five, 6,000 people. I think way it turns out maybe it was a bad idea. I don't,

Jen: yeah. Yeah, man. Deja, how's your social media life? Oh,

DeJah: it's, um. In the negative.

I do

Joe: think that it is important if you have a business to market that business on social media. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jen: I think it's very, it's a necessary evil at this point.

Joe: Yeah. Because that's how people hear about you.

Jen: What I do ap appreciate a little bit about South social media now because there's been so many times I'm like, God, if I, it's part of my job that I like, I kind of have to have it.

But, um, there's been so many times, especially recently that I'm just like, I just wanna burn it all down. Like I don't, because it's not anymore where I'm going to find nail ideas, it's just, I. Political rhetoric like everywhere. Yeah. No matter what side you're on, or if you're in the middle or you don't give a shit.

Like you can't help but have it in your face. Mm-hmm. And it's be, it's your algorithm feeding. And I don't even wanna go down that entire rabbit hole, but one thing that I do appreciate since Dasia is not on social media is that, um, one, [00:16:00] she, YouTube, you know, updated their platform to have YouTube shorts and so she does look at YouTube and so she'll send videos here or there.

We have a, a chat group with, with. All of the siblings here. Uh, super siblings Soiree is the name of the, uh, I'm a big fan of alliteration, so Yes. Ah,

Joe: VSS Good. Okay.

Jen: And, um, yeah, so she'll share some videos there and then now Instagram is much better about sharing links externally. Yeah. Uh, if, even if you don't have an Instagram account, and I think we've talked about before, if it is something that she can't see, she will let me know.

I will screen record depending on how bad I want her to see it. I will screen record it and send it to her.

DeJah: Yes, yes. The effort. I appreciate it so much. Yes. About a

Joe: year ago, I just deleted most of the social media off my phone because it was a time suck, that's all. Yeah, it is. Mm-hmm. And, uh, but my kids, I didn't tell anybody and my kids send you reels 'cause you know, that's part of people's love languages.

Mm-hmm. And uh, it took 'em a long time to be like, dad just always leaves us on red. So now that when they come home from college, they just have them, they send 'em to me anyways and they airplay to the [00:17:00] TV and just show me the ones that they've been sending me over the last couple months. It's very enjoyable.

DeJah: Yeah. Yeah. I like going through and anything that they have suggested. Did I even have a, a whiff of Hmm. Yeah. This could be trying to influence me

Joe: and I think people give block. Yeah. I think people give algorithms way too much credit. They do if you don't control them. I don't even think you can. 'cause I don't think they're as logical as people do.

I remember that documentary that Netflix did about Yes. Like the founders and they basically all admitted that they Sure, they might've helped write the algorithm, but nobody knows what it's doing anymore. No. Yeah, no. So they couldn't tweak it if they wanted to. That's why I talked

DeJah: to Google. I, I, I, I do. I have like, you are analyzing me.

Yeah. And I'm analyzing you. And when you don't function the way that I want you to, I tell you. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. I just, I'm like, I bet AI is listening to everything that I'm saying anyway, so Yeah. You just, so I'm, I'm trying to placate it ahead of time. You hear that phone? You're my friend. Um,

Jen: AI's the best.

Yes. Yeah. [00:18:00] Well, it's also, I'll be very interested to see like, I don't know if you wanna call it evolutionary or what Degenerative, um, which I know those are like opposite, but anyway, the de-evolution of our bodies physically. Mm-hmm. Because we're constantly like holding phones and looking down, like, I recently y'all

Joe: tech neck's a real thing.

It's a medical term. No. Yes. It's, it's,

Jen: I am officially 40 now and I know it by the way that my body feels. You're not quite officially 40. According to when this episode is published, I, oh, well, yes. Okay. Okay, okay. Okay. Yeah. We were

Joe: time traveling this episode. Yes,

Jen: yes. And recently just by sleeping on the wrong pillow when we were vacationing.

I have been to the chiropractor twice now for it, gotten a deep, deep, deep tissue massage for it. And I noticed that when I would look down at my phone for more extended periods of time, it exacerbated my symptoms. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, God

Joe: damnit. Yeah. Have you, have you done the thing where like you injure yourself from something weird, like breathing in too much?

Oh

Jen: yes. Yeah.

Joe: Sneezing,

Jen: stepping, like stepping just a [00:19:00] normal step forward summer for

Joe: two days over it. You're like, what the heck is wrong with the body?

DeJah: Great. Just feeling myself fall apart, loving this one breath at a time. Growing old

Joe: is fun.

Jen: Yes,

DeJah: yes.

Jen: And it is, it's just so funny too, 'cause like, you know, whenever you hear, whenever you're younger and you hear folks that are older than you, like talk about it, you're like, nah, it can't be that bad.

No, it is that bad. It is that bad.

Joe: Yeah, let's get fun. Sorry, kiddos. So, uh, more about me. My, my kids are grown now, so that's fun. Learning how to parent adults, that's way different than parenting kids. Okay. Um, how so? Please explain. Well, it's no longer consequences slash do what I say. Mm-hmm. So when you're a little kid, right?

Yeah. It makes more sense to tell them don't touch hot things. Yes. Rather than to explain the nature of how things, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Mm-hmm. But the kids, they're grown now, so they're past that. And, uh, but it's a fun phase of parenting. It's just, it's just different. I think in a lot of ways it's very freeing.

Like you [00:20:00] can, you can tell your kids what you think about something, but it's their decision at this point. Yeah. Um, and it's great when they ask you and. Because they don't have to ask anymore, you know? So it's, it's, it's a nice, I got great daughters. It's a good relationship. I'm enjoying it, but they're, mm-hmm.

They're gone a lot 'cause you know, they're going to college. So. Yeah. Like I got a text the other last week from my daughter. She was like, I'm coming home, want to hang out on Saturday? And I didn't really read the text all the way. And I was like, yes. And I thought she wanted me to drive to Boone and hang out.

And I was like, sure, what are we doing? You wanna grab a sandwich? Let's do it. Like,

Jen: I'm there.

Joe: But she came home when we watched the movie. It was fun. Nice. That's

Jen: good. Yeah. Yeah. I'd imagine because Deja you have legally adult. Yes, yes. And children as well. So what is it like though? Going from like, you know, do what I say or else like consequences kind of thing to having them being adults and, and making their own choices and stuff.

And you really just kind of, even if in your mind you're like, Hmm, [00:21:00] that's not gonna go well, taking a step back and just kind washing your hands and you gotta kinda let it happen. I think

Joe: anyone a Bueller, you started audacious, so I dunno if she was gonna answer it. Yeah, I think for me, like I, I heard a couple things, I don't remember where I heard 'em, but one piece of really good advice was like, Hey, your primary job as a parent is to help your kid figure out what they're good at.

Yeah. And I like that approach. So there's a lot of like, Hey, what do you think you wanna do? Like that kind of stuff. And try to help them discover that about themselves. And then I think if you wait until they're legally 18 to change the relationship, you got problems. Mm-hmm. You know, you need to be giving them some freedom.

You know, we grew up in an age where you could give kids a lot of freedom and my wife and I bucked the system. Like our kids had a bunch of freedom and they could go and run to the neighbor's house and come back in hours and all that kind of stuff. But it was kind of an unpopular way to parent. Mm-hmm.

So my kids are more mature than most of kids their age, and I think that's why they're doing so well. Mm-hmm. Even though they're moved out, I think we got a serious problem with arrested development. [00:22:00] 'cause parents Oh, absolutely. Have. Well, that's why I, my parenting,

DeJah: well one of my parenting styles was especially with teenagers on, like, I just talk to them like they're adults.

Mm-hmm. I would talk to them like they're my friend. If you're gonna make that choice and it's gonna be self-defeating. Yeah. I mean, it's your choice. That's all. That's just always by everything is, I'm not judging you, I'm just letting you know the consequence. And I tell them a lot. Stories about how I fucked up.

Yeah, I, I was like, oh, like, you know, my son who'd be like, you know, I, you know, drinking is bad for him. Like, 'cause he doesn't have great kidneys, but, so he'll have like a horrible hangover. And thankfully you have a great relationship where he, where he's telling me he's dying, right? And I'm like, yeah, man, no, I fucking get it.

It sounds like you got the fucking clanks, like if I were you, right? Like, I, you need tons of water. I need you to get, I'm gonna send you some Gatorade, like, we're gonna work this out. But yeah, like, you're, you're gonna ride that way. You're literally, you're, you're killing all your cells right now and you're lucky to still be alive.

But you know, choices bud. Yeah. Yeah. Choices. It's awesome. [00:23:00] Down choices. And, and so, because, because of that, they will tell me, I mean everything and anything, some of that, you know, like, 'cause I'm a human too and that's why I identify. Like I was a, I was a kid, I was a teenager, I did stupid shit. I, you know.

Mm-hmm. I think there's

Joe: something special about your kids not hiding stuff from you. Mm-hmm. I mean, when they were little, very proud of that. They hide stuff from you. Mm-hmm. Both of my girls do a really good job. They share most of that stuff with mom because it's easier 'cause I'm dad. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I think that just gets the dynamic weird.

But they're not. They're, they're doing great. They're, they're, uh, I mean, they're doing regular stuff that I wish they weren't doing. Mm-hmm. But it's part of growing up, correct? Right. Yeah. Oh, trust me. It's nothing, it's nothing, you know, we didn't do. Yeah.

Jen: Well, and I, I as, I mean, I, I don't have children of my own.

I just, my ovaries have never called to that. And just not, not, they've never quivered. I just pictured my fucking imagination. I just pictured like a hearkening of music

DeJah: just radiating from the Yes.

Jen: Yeah. No, I knew from kind of a [00:24:00] pretty early age that I was just like, like babysitting. I was like, the fuck, why do people do this?

So anyway, I love my dogs and I love other people's kids that get to go home with them. But, um, I love my nephew. Anyway, I digress. I, uh. I appreciated from a child standpoint. My mom was, she was a labor and delivery nurse for years. And she was, she was, one of the conversations that she was always open about was sex because she said she was always like, I don't care how hard you try to prevent kids from having sex.

Like they're gonna, yeah. The hormones are raging and the more you try to prevent it, the harder they're gonna work to make it happen, kind of thing. And so she wasn't advocating for us to be like, go have fun kids, good luck. You know? Right. Bring me home a grandkid at 15. None of that by any means. Just acknowledging

DeJah: that the Yeah.

Jen: But she was acknowledging how real it was. She was very open about, you know, puberty and our bodies changing and what was gonna happen. Very real about, you know, birth control and what would happen if we, you know, all these different things. And I'm so grateful for that because that's real life. Yeah. That is the real world.

And so whenever we [00:25:00] got into the, I will never forget the day I was sitting in the kitchen with my mom and my brother, and my brother just, I don't know, was I guess feeling himself. And he just turned around my mom and he said, so mom, do you think I've had sex yet? The audacity. Like, what? But that, and so my mom, she just stood there for a second and she said, well, if you haven't, you've come damn close.

And I was just like, what reality am I living in right now? I sitting there going, how the fuck did I get in the middle of this conversation? I'm like, cleaning dishes from dinner. Like, what the hell? I wanna exit stage left immediately. Oh god. But that also just really fostered then whenever. I remember I was going to, you know, we, we talked about growing up in the gut and so, you know, parties were bonfires out in the country and everything else.

And I remember telling my, my mom, I was going to this party and I was meeting one of my friends on the cheerleading squad. I was gonna go home and have a lumbar party with her. And she said, okay, that's fine. Whether there be drinking. And I honestly, I did not have the desire to drink in high school because I do have control issues.

And I just felt like I would be out [00:26:00] of control if I did that and maybe trust issues. I didn't trust other people. I don't know. Anyway, that's for me and my therapist to talk about. Okay. So I was like, no, I'm not gonna drink. I would now, my parents also, if I was home in a safe place with like it was a party or something, they wanted me to try alcohol there with them as opposed to like mm-hmm.

Out in the wild going ham, you know? So, um,

Joe: I get that. I get that urge.

Jen: Yeah. What

Joe: urge the, as a parent mm-hmm. I remember the first time we went. To Mexico when the kids were 18. And then my daughter had her first drink, my oldest, and she was like, oh, that's great.

I don't even feel anything. And I'm like, we'll take you just wait. I'm like, we'll take some Long Island ice teas. Yeah. And she was like asleep in two hours. Oh yeah.

Jen: Put her on her ass. And I was like,

Joe: because we're not gonna go hard this first time, just so that she understands. But that didn't help.

DeJah: Yeah, no, it didn't work.

But no, their metabolisms burned right through it. Yeah.

Jen: Well, but, but at that, like, going to this party, like some shit went down, but my mom was just very open of like, if anything happens Yeah. And you are [00:27:00] uncomfortable, please call me. I was like, with what? Cell phone mom? That's a whole other story. But, um,

Joe: boom,

Jen: that's whenever it was Redneck connect and, uh, I didn't have a cell phone anyway.

So we, uh, and some shit did go down. And so once I got to a place where I was actually able to call my mom. I didn't get in trouble. Like she, she was like, I maybe wish you hadn't have done these things 'cause you scared the shit outta me. But also you were, I didn't drink, you know, I thought I was helping by taking care of my friend.

We were in a kind of a scary situation retrospectively, but, but she came, she found me. They got me, and I, my friend ended up getting grounded. Yeah. I did not, because, you know, I honored that trust and that, that respect and, but I was felt comfortable doing that because my mom was so open and, and honest of like, yeah, we'd rather you be safe.

Bar none.

Joe: I think there's a, there's a cool thing that parents do that they try to not pass on their crap to their kids and some mm-hmm. Some parents. Yeah. But I do think that. That gives me hope. Like I was just knocking on parents, but I [00:28:00] think there's a lot of stuff going on right now that's new mm-hmm.

That we can't compare it to, like you're a 14-year-old. This is infinity. Put it in your pocket. I know.

Jen: Yeah.

Joe: I'm sure you can handle it. Here's absolutely everything from people that are trying to hurt you. Go ahead and stick that in your pocket to, most of

DeJah: our internet laws are still from 1998.

Joe: Yeah. Because people don't understand 'em. Um, and probably 'cause our legislatures can't

DeJah: even know how to log into a computer.

They're so old.

Joe: Yeah. And

DeJah: they're gonna be regulating the internet. Yeah.

Joe: But the, the kids are, the kids are doing good. I always enjoy being a dad. It's my favorite thing for sure. That's awesome. I'm glad that we're able to help out the way we are as parents because they're up against, like, it's not normal.

Like I hear people complaining about kids not having work ethics and stuff, and I don't really think that's true. It's just the mountain's a little higher than it used to be. And I think a lot of kids are being like, what's the point? Never gonna buy a house, never gonna do this. Right. Never gonna do that.

Oh no,

DeJah: I totally get that. Like, talk to my boys, like, you know, like what's the American dream now for them?

Joe: lot of people feel it's unattainable. Mm-hmm. Or. Stacked against them, so Well, if

DeJah: there isn't [00:29:00] generational wealth passing forward, like if you don't get that leg up, you, it's not the same.

Can't afford to live now. Yeah.

Joe: They were promised all this stuff from the TV shows they grew up on. Mm-hmm. They're not gonna mm-hmm. Get to get delivered on. Yeah. Or they're gonna come up with a cool way to change it to be determined. I don't know. Yeah. I think it happen. Let's listen.

Fingers

DeJah: crossed, let's be positive. Yep, absolutely. We're just gonna turn this ship

Jen: around. We didn't have to compete with, well, social media period, right? Mm-hmm. But also social media as a commodity,

Joe: right?

Jen: Like in a way like that you can go on social media, instant gratification, get the likes, makes you feel good, and also turn it into lots and lots of income, but, right.

How realistic is that? You know, like, I mean, sure a lot of people do it, but. You know, not everybody, they get some break. They've got somebody down the pipeline that help them get, you know what I mean? Like Yeah. So it's just there. There's that, that competition too. And that looks all glamorous, right? Like, oh, I just gotta talk about what I'm wearing by this brand and get paid all kinds of money.

Joe: I read a study that 42% of kids wanna be influencers. Mm-hmm. [00:30:00] When they grow up. That makes sense. Ugh. Which is like, it was 50% of kids, when you ask my generation wanted to be sports stars.

Mm-hmm. I mean, it's not like we were like super realistic.

DeJah: This is true. This is true. Yeah.

Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's funny.

Jen: I wanted to be a forensic pathologist. Brilliant. Okay. Then I got into chemistry in college and I was like, no, I don't.

Joe: Yeah, that's another weird thing, like who knows at 18 what you wanna do with your life?

DeJah: Well, that's why fucking Europe does it so much better, right? Yes. You just absolutely track towards things that you like, that you're naturally good at.

Joe: That's another thing parents can help with though.

Just help your kids figure out they're good at mm-hmm. Well, and I don't know how we got on to kids 'cause you asked me about Pocket. We were just talking about you. Yeah,

Jen: yeah. Because you need to pay the bills 'cause you had kids. That's right. That's exactly right. Well we, we did ask you what you wanna ramble about.

You put three things. Okay. So the first one is slow plot lines on episodic streaming services. First of all. Good word, episodic. Yes.

Joe: Yeah.

Jen: Proud of you for that one. Okay. So what, like, [00:31:00] what show comes to mind to you first, first slow plot on

Joe: it?

All of them. Just, if you're gonna,

Jen: if you're gonna do

Joe: an hour long drama format show, have something fricking happen in the first episode. I'll often look over at my phone and be like, baby, we've been watching this for three hours and nothing has happened.

Jen: I know the character's names. Just that. That's it. Yeah. Character building.

I think the first one that comes to mind for me, that really stood out, that did that, and I had people as I was starting to watch it tell me like, it's a slow burn.

So I, I had the expectation that it was a slow burn, but was, um, wand vission. Oh,

Joe: okay. Yeah.

Jen: During, you know, 'cause when, you know, when Marvel came out with all of the series and stuff post end game

DeJah: yeah.

Jen: And Wa Visions and it ended up, it was so good. And like, for, to call 'em Full Circle was great. But those first few episodes, I was like, geez.

It was what's,

Joe: it's always, it's always the big studio. They can't figure it out. Like, when you write a movie script, like the inciting action usually happens on page 17, there's a formula. Mm-hmm. Like, but when there was tv they're like, let's try some stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:00] And, uh, I don't think we've landed it yet. We're not quite there, but we'll get it figured out. I, I believe in, is there

Jen: one for you, deja that sticks out, that you were like, Hmm, this doesn't pick up soon. I'm gonna stop.

DeJah: I'm, I'm gonna bail. You know, I'm sure there are so many, and I've purged them from my memory role because I stopped watching them.

Mm. Right. Because I'm, I'm with you. You've gotta hook me. So I'm thinking about Yeah. Series like Bosch and like, there's, there's great right off from the start. Yeah. Right. We got plot.

Joe: It doesn't, I don't even have to have it be great. I just need something to happen. It's gotta hook me. Yeah. It's gotta hook me.

DeJah: Yeah. Yeah. Need some, some gore, some sex, some something like, some, yeah, some crime, some violence. What, what are we, what are we talking about here? Well, America is what we're talking, uh,

Jen: Uhhuh.

DeJah: Yeah. Yeah,

Jen: yeah. Yeah. I, yeah. I don't know. I, I would

DeJah: say maybe, um, also too, even though exceptional writing the wire, you have to, you have to get into it.

Joe: Yeah.

DeJah: There's so many characters and plots going on. Right? Yeah. When they're really multi dynamic like that sometimes. Mm-hmm. It is a. [00:33:00] One,

Jen: the, maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but one that was a slower burn to it didn't take I, well, people told me ahead of time, like, wait till season two. I'm like, geez, I gotta go through a whole season of Boringness.

Wait gets, which I don't think took that long. It gets better. It

Joe: 13 hours. No shit.

Jen: Yeah. Oh my God. But one that was a bit of a slow burn, but that I absolutely loved and stuck with to the end was Breaking Bad. Oh yeah. The start to That one was a little, that's

DeJah: a great example. At least

Joe: something happened in Breaking Bad.

But I understand what you're saying. Like I won't get mad at Breaking Bad because something Man got cancer. Mm-hmm. Yes. Doesn't tell his family needs to find a way to revive for him. That's a plot point I can get behind that. Yeah. Yeah. That happened real quick. But I think the slow burn that you're talking about with Breaking Band that made me love it was he went from good guy to bad guy.

Jen: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you want it's character's like you, you, you walked that edge with him of like, you know, he's still a good guy. Yeah. But he's like. Really taking into this, this darker side of him, and which Oh yeah. He,

DeJah: he allows himself to be morally corrupted for the greater good of his family.

Right. Yeah. That's his, and [00:34:00] Jesse went

Joe: from bad guy to good guy.

Jen: Good guy. Yeah. Oh, Jesse. Oh yeah. That was, that was a good joke. Yeah, it was. Ugh, it, they didn't kill him.

Joe: They could still bring him back. They never showed he was dead. Oh, Jesse, he No. Will like, uh, the main guy, he just got gut shot. Walter Walter, they panned out.

DeJah: Yeah, because they did bring, they started another one, another show after, well, a better call Saul. No, another one with Jesse.

Joe: Yeah, they did. Oh, they did? That's right. Yeah. I think it was a movie or a short run. Yeah, yeah,

DeJah: yeah. It was. But um, clearly all of us

Jen: Yeah. Watched it. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Um, yeah.

Well, and there's just so much TV now. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm just like, I, no, I haven't heard of it. Age. Yeah. No, I'm not gonna watch it. Like I can't, yeah. It's just too much. Just to curl up in my bed with my hot tea and smut books. Yes. Now if they get turned into TV shows, I'm in, um, deja and I are gonna live and die on that.

Yeah, babe. Hell yes. Okay. The second thing you wanted to talk about was, uh, sex [00:35:00] education.

Joe: When I lived in Mississippi for a couple years, I, at the time was trying to start the business. It was like my first time to start the business and fail, but there was just not a lot of interest in websites and tech stuff in Mississippi.

And I was having a hard time making money and I was going to a church at the time and I was like, I'm not gonna work at this church. And then like in six months I was like over. Youth group to college age kids and I thought, Hey, this will be great if I want more kids to come to youth group. 'cause I'm the youth pastor, I should go get into schools.

And there was like a program or whatever to do abstinence only sex ed. And I was like, well,

DeJah: I'll just do

Joe: that. So I taught for like four years, 17 counties, thousands of kids. Abstinence only sex ed. And uh, it was a train wreck.

Jen: My first one would be like, how'd that go for you, Joe? So

Joe: was it effective for abstinence only education?

No. But I took it as an opportunity to help kids think about stuff. Mm-hmm. You know, like I was teaching lessons on like, who owns [00:36:00] Viacom and what would a corporation gain from having you think a certain way? Mm-hmm. Trying to teach kids how to think for themselves.

That was kind of my sideways way into it. And, uh, I had to teach the sine stuff 'cause it was like part of the curriculum. Yeah, and show the pictures of gonorrhea and stuff.

Jen: I'm just trying to picture you like podcast tech guy compresses the buttons guy. Like just talking about kids, talking with Mr.

Cooper. Like, Hey guys,

Joe: have you guys seen gonorrhea? Oh my God, it ain't

Jen: pretty. This is what chlamydia looks like. I didn't,

Joe: I didn't do the fear tactic thing. I was just, and nobody seemed to mind because I didn't think it was super effective. So my approach was like, Hey, part of this is, I have to show you gross pictures now.

Yeah. But the, this is what this means. Your decisions have consequences.

Jen: Yeah. Do with that what you will, yes.

DeJah: It's this. It can kill you.

Joe: But it was a tiny town and I would do all the county schools. So pretty much every teenager knew me because I would, I would be in their health class for all eight hours.

So I'd see everybody in the school and I'd teach like 13 week routes at [00:37:00] all the different schools. My kids were tiny toddlers at the time, and there would just be constantly like teenager girls from the other side of Walmart being like, Hey, it's a sex guy.

And I would look at their parents and be like, that's not what they mean. I was a facilitator at your child's school. That's not a good representation Yeah. Of what that is. But it happened. It happened enough that my wife got a big kick out of it. That's funny. Regularly

DeJah: guy.

Joe: I'm pretty sure I counted. I think 48 girls got pregnant.

DeJah: I was gonna say, yeah. Howa was, that was super effective. Yeah. As the

Joe: efficacy, I don't know, maybe 50 would've I I know,

Jen: yeah. I, I, I, I think because, you know, in growing up in the country, like that's what they taught at our school too. Mm-hmm. But I think knowing that, I had my mom on the other side that was like, ah, fuck that.

Joe: I think it kinda goes back to what we were saying before. I think your job as a parent is to help teach your kids to discern what is right and wrong. [00:38:00] Right. And not tell them, because that then they can't be an adult if they gotta keep coming back for you to tell them. And I think that's the flaw with abstinence only.

But it really, people loved it in the Bible belt. Oh,

Jen: absolutely. And, and I, to me too, it also just placed so much, this is a whole other rabbit, rabbit hole, but like.

Placing so much emphasis on sex and like what it has to mean. Like you're, you're making it, that it has to mean this, and then when you get into adulthood, you're like. It's just sex. Like I don't wanna make it it too light and that it's not like an important thing, or it doesn't have, it can't have like serious consequences and things like that, but especially for females, it's like

Joe: mm-hmm.

Jen: You can't have sex just because it feels good. You, if you have sex with someone, you better make sure that they love you because then if you get pregnant, then you're gonna have a kid with like, there was just so much stuff behind it to where like, I was terrified. Not because of any religious stuff, but one, because babies, I mean, my [00:39:00] mom has literally delivered a baby for like 11-year-old before, which, let's be real, that wasn't sex, that was rape.

Right, right. Yeah. And then, but then the other piece of it is just like, well, if then if I do this and then I find out this guy doesn't, sha doesn't love me. Mm-hmm. Then it's so shameful that how could I possibly do this with the person that actually didn't love me? Like, whenever the o the other side of that coin for guys is just like, oh, go spread your seed and fuck whatever you want.

It's fine. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like it's not a big deal. There's the

DeJah: responsibility doesn't lie. Yeah, with the seed.

Jen: Yes.

DeJah: Mm-hmm.

Jen: So it was just, to me there was just such a much bigger, I don't know, comprehensive way to look at it is, and that's why like I've really tried to change my language now around, you know, sex positivity as to, because think about all the words that we use and we were just talking about slutty Halloween costumes.

Yeah. And, you know, in a previous episode, whereas that's because that's how you viewing females, you know, around sexual activity. Whereas guys, you're congra, no offense Joe, but you're like con, well not you, you've been with your wife for a long time, but you're congratulated on. You know, you pro making up Yeah.

And tallies. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And it's [00:40:00] just, it's, it's not Right.

Joe: Yeah. It's a weird double standard. And we're not teaching kids to think America. Uh, yeah. So I used to do, uh, a big lesson that I wrote up.

It was directed primarily at girls. Like if you're being pressured, that's not a good sign. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What that guy really cares about. Smart lesson, you mm-hmm. Or, or anything. Yeah. Uh, other than having sex with you mm-hmm. Which is not the same as liking you. Mm-hmm. We would like it to be a easier formula. And I think that's kind of, it goes with kind of like the whole theme of the thing that probably works better to a five-year-old mm-hmm. Don't have sex. Yeah. Logical. Yeah. We don't need to explain it. Correct. Correct. Yep. Because when you get to the age where you don't have to listen any longer, the time to make the decision, if you're ready to have sex, is not after three hours of making out in the backseat of some guy's truck.

Jen: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe: Because you're not making the decision at that point. Uh, your hormones are driving. Right, right.

Um, because just like you [00:41:00] guys are saying, regardless of what people are telling you, women are sexual as well. Mm-hmm.

Jen: Yep.

Joe: Uh,

Jen: when, when done correctly, it could be pleasurable for women as well, right. As it should be. Yes. Yes. We are not just baby making machines. Mm-hmm.

Joe: But that was, that was fun. I enjoyed that.

Yeah. It's a weird thing. Well, appreciate put on my resume. I appreciate that you tried

DeJah: to put in some actual emotional balance to it, because I recall my. Abstinence education and the, the gym teacher did a resplendent job. Oh, I'm sure. It's always the gym teacher. I mean, it was so sterile. Yeah. Right. And of course, tilted toward the all responsibility was feminine on my feet.

Yep. Yeah. Right. Just don't do it. Right. Yeah. Nothing about how it could be pressured upon you. Nothing about how it could occur. Not literally nothing. Just, here are the posters, here are the ovaries, here are the disgusting pictures. Mm-hmm. Here's what syphilis Yeah.

Will do. And done.

Jen: Yeah. Well, and, and then there was always like the joke of like, sex can wait [00:42:00] masturbate, but then there's like. There's no open rule conversation about masturbation, right?

Mm-hmm. Like it, it's like, it's like this dirty word, this dirty thing that happens if you can't get any or something like that. Like there's just, you know, this closeted like, well, if you have to do it, that's what you gotta do. Even though it was like, but don't have sex. And you go is raging hormones and stuff, why not make the conversation around masturbation?

Like, let's remove the stigma from this.

DeJah: Well, and then also that leads in Sure go, you know, masturbation great. But the material that they're then pulling from and creating a fallacy of what sex is, oh God. Before they even have sex for the first time, right? Yep. Because as we've talked about before, everything is fucking available to them.

Yeah. Now finally, just as a very recently recent, super recent, recent, you can't just jump on a, just a porn side, couple key strokes, right?

Joe: Mm-hmm.

DeJah: You didn't have to prove of any age whatsoever. So our kids up to literally very recently. Have been hypersexualized. Yep. But then we fall back into the,

Joe: they'll figure out a way around in about 15 minutes.

DeJah: Yep. Yeah. [00:43:00] Yep. Why should, but no, that's why I've had very, you know, just straightforward conversations with my sons, you know, the pornography that you're seeing is not a real example of sex. You know, choking a woman is a simulation of violence and murder. Don't do it. Like talking about consent.

Yeah. Because those are things that are just like, they're normalized in pornography.

Joe: Mm-hmm.

DeJah: You know? So how would your developing brain know the difference when you're going to whacker Dole? Yeah. You know, like Dole

Jen: What a spank the monkey. Yeah. It, well, 'cause it just made me think, you know, I got, I, I understand that like porn has been very readily available with the advent of the internet and stuff, but it just made me laugh and think about, like, my brother, whenever he was like, he would go steal my dad's like VHS tapes.

Oh, classic. Classic. Or all the Playboy magazine, like the Playboy in the closet exist. Playboy Magazine still a thing.

Joe: I'm sure

Jen: it's, is it just a digital newsletter these days? No doubt. A email.

DeJah: It's a digital newsletter. That's fucking [00:44:00] funny.

Jen: The third thing you wanted to ramble about, um, [00:45:00] was rage baiting.

Joe: Yeah. I don't like this about myself, I don't know why I find it so enjoyable, but I do I like winding people up about stuff that's easy to wind people up about.

Mm-hmm. Nowadays

DeJah: that's real easy. Mm-hmm.

Joe: if I know somebody's very religious, I like to wind them up. If I know somebody is very political, I like to wind them up. I don't think it's cool. I'm not proud of it. I

DeJah: dunno. It kind of sounds like you're like, but I enjoy it.

Yeah. Know thyself know thyself. Yeah.

Joe: Yeah. Working at a church, you know, separation at church estate and all, like, what's that? I didn't have a, I didn't have a big, I. Political interest. Mm-hmm. Because it was so detrimental to what I needed to do in my job.

Mm-hmm. So I didn't pay a lot of attention to politics and I kind of became very agnostic to the idea of Republican, Democrat, whatever the politics, I still kinda lean that way. Like politically, I, I agree with certain things of both sides, but I think both Republicans and Democrats, I feel like [00:46:00] if you thought of 'em as a bell curve, 80% of 'em are like super close on most of the stuff.

And then you got 10% on both ends. And they're the bad actors and they do, they do the things that are just as astronomically stupid as the other one. And I like to wind people up about stuff like that by just recalling recent things from history to be like, well, okay, this just happened on the other side.

And it go, goes back. I mean, you just, well, and especially now that you can just.

DeJah: Throw video back and forth. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. I I, I kind of do appreciate people like you. I do follow like some content creators that do shit like that. Mm-hmm. Because it is very bemusing when someone is just dying on a hill.

Right. You just play a clip. Just play a clip. Oh, gosh, yes. Yeah. It's beautiful. It really like, you're like, ha

Joe: ha. Like, I did it to somebody the other day. They were very wound up about like Kimmel and being the end of free speech and whatever, and I said, yeah, it'd be crazy like kicking a president off of Twitter for a year.

And they're like, oh, damn it. But both sides, bad actors do the [00:47:00] dumbest stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And they're not representing their party. And I think that's why I enjoy it so much. Mm-hmm. They, they don't represent the majority of the party, but they're the ones that get all the news. Just the loudest. They're the loudest.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just the loudest. The loudest. No, you're

DeJah: T wheel gets the grease. No, and that's honestly like a lot of my content is just. America, I like to get a cross section of how people are viewing things on either side.

Joe: Yeah.

DeJah: Um, and I look at both news platforms, um, and you're absolutely right.

They're, the only difference is one ideology may be voting against some their own benefit more than the other one. Mm-hmm. But they all want the exact same thing. Well, need is actually a greater word. Yeah. They

Joe: need, yeah. I like to, I like to wind up church folks on politics with the idea of like, we need to return to the founder's intent and just help them understand, you know, like, like we didn't make up that term until the nineties.

Mm-hmm. Like the founder's intent was, we need to get outta here because we have a state run government. Yeah. That is telling us that we should follow the Church of [00:48:00] England. Like that was the founder's intent, that the government should be completely separate. Mm-hmm. And so then you get all this weird stuff now where you got like the, christian nationalists. If you follow that. To the end. And I feel like this is rage baiting, but I, this is actually pretty serious to me. I think if you follow that to the end, what do you want? Do you want a theocracy? Yeah. Mm. Well let's look at Theocracies.

They're awful. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, because, because we don't need our values to dictate the way our government works. 'cause we're republic and we elect people to represent the views of the people. And if the views of the people are this, that, that mm-hmm. Becomes the law and that weird disconnect for Christians that they just can't reconcile.

Yes. I find to be very challenging Right now, I feel like, I don't understand why some Christians think that there's not such thing as a Christian Democrat. Have you heard, have

DeJah: you heard this? Um, I have, I have seen a lot of what were Christians. Believe that the [00:49:00] term Christian has now been taken and perverted and are calling themselves just the followers of Jesus Christ.

Joe: I mean, that's been, yeah, I remember that in like the eighties and not

DeJah: in an like an LSD way. Like

Joe: there was a movement called the emergent church in the eighties and it was like, Christ followers probably a better term. I mean, Christian is a word that started in Antioch that was based on the original language.

'cause they were just Christ ones. Exactly. And there was like literal Christian, little Christs. And so that was like, oh, those are those guys over there. They're the little Christ. I think it's so much more complex than people make it.

This is why I think I enjoy rage baiting. 'cause I fundamentally disagree with the concept that if you knew what I knew you would, you would believe what I believe. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It, it's just not true. Correct. Yep. Correct.

Everybody's got their own story, their own context, their own reasons for thinking the way that they think. And if we spend enough time with people, and that's what I love about podcasting, you just have an hour long conversation with somebody. You can start out very combative and be like, you know what?

We got a lot in common. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, that's humanity. Yep. Yes. Yep. I figured it out. But [00:50:00] when

DeJah: you forget, when you forget that humanity is a thing. Yeah. Right.

Jen: Yeah. I, I think it is so hard to. People, I mean, I mean, I, I'm guilty of this too. It's, it's something that, you know, I, I've tried to work on, you know, but I'm like, we get, we, we see the world to your point, through our own lenses.

Yeah. And so whenever we get so convicted in, in the way that we see the world, we forget to give grace or take a step back and be like, this is not the only way to see the world. And also thank God it's not right. Also

DeJah: remind ourselves that they may not have the education or understanding that I do.

Mm-hmm. I'm just thinking about you talking about the separation of, of church and state and the fact that literally as I was raised as a Lutheran, right, so the, the lessons of I. Yes, bud. Yes. Mm-hmm. Nailing the thesis on the door because he's saying, fuck you, state. Right, right. The literal action and then leaving and gonna America.

Yeah.

Joe: He's an interesting dude. 'cause like he was like one, he was recorded saying like, boy, the worst thing that could happen is people would turn this into a denomination. [00:51:00] Welcome. Lutherans.

DeJah: Correct. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But, but that I idea that you're now taking that and you're twisting it into a state nation.

It's like, oh no bud. That's what we fled from.

Joe: Yeah. And I think that's why I like rage baiting. 'cause I think it's appropriate satirical way to attack propaganda. Yes. You're in a bubble that's only feeding you one thing.

DeJah: You're a wise man

You're in an echo chamber, do so, and you need to take yourself out. Do something

Joe: fun if you think algorithms are good, and log out of YouTube and then watch an hour of the reels they suggest to you.

DeJah: I know. Yep.

Joe: Because that is the baseline of what YouTube thinks Americans wanna watch. Yes. And it's a lot of wine bottles breaking on stairs.

A s ml or sludge. Oh, uh, yeah. Just nonsense, stupid, stupid shit. You watch a half an hour, hour of it, stupid, and you're like, this is the worst thing. I can't stand YouTube anymore.

DeJah: I have absolutely. In like, traveling and in different countries and hotels, like, we'll just log in on their tv. Right. And that is exactly it.

Uh, the, these things we're stupid. We're stupid, and we're [00:52:00] just easily entertained by ourselves being injured. And like in an asmr it is. It's like, oh, it's so dumb.

Jen: Listen, I didn't even leave the United States when I was uh, house sitting for my parents this summer when they were traveling. I forgot to log into my, like we share a Netflix account, but that, you know, they have their own portal.

Mm-hmm.

Joe: Yeah.

Jen: And so it just defaulted and I just clicked 'cause I was like, oh, you know, whatever. And then I'm looking at this, what you should watch next or pick this up. And I was like, the fuck, this is not my show. What is happening? Yeah. I just was so, and I was like, oh, yep. A this not my account. Mm-hmm.

But just that easily like, ah, wait a minute.

Joe: I think this is part of the problem you were mentioning, like, you know, your perspective being your own, you could spin that as selfish and be like, well it's all about me. That's not, that's not really, 'cause you can shift your perspective, you can change your perspective.

You can talk to somebody else and understand their perspective. It's so strange how we're so close and if you will talk to almost anybody, you have something in common [00:53:00] and a lot to talk about.

Mm-hmm. And people

Jen: wanna bring up like politics or religion so quickly these days. Yeah. Right. It's like, can we talk about. Anything else. And

Joe: that's my problem with rage baiting. 'cause I actually wanna talk about it long enough to have like a bit of salve, you know, like a little bit calming balm.

Mm-hmm. Like, let's, let's talk about what you're mad about. Right?

DeJah: Right.

well that's almost not impossible now just because of the rate of shit. Right. That comes out endlessly. Mm-hmm. Every day. All throughout day.

Something else. Yeah. What, how many fucking mass shootings have there been today? Right. Like, I mean, it's just a endless, and when you try to, that would be wonderful. That concept of being able to have, yeah. Okay. Let's, I'm gonna bait you in and then I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna sandwich this and we're gonna end up with something nice at the end and we're gonna kumbaya.

Yep. But I mean, no, it's to do, but you couldn't get there because by the time you got halfway through, something else would've happened. Yeah. And popped up like it's, yeah.

Joe: There's no simple answer. Mm-hmm. There's no like magic button. Nope. We just do this beaming pong. My dad and he would talk about politics. He had political [00:54:00] views. Now people have political beliefs. Yes. So the challenge with having a political belief instead of a view isn't like, well, let's talk about it. This is my view. I can, I can be willing to negotiate, but a belief is who I am.

Yes. So by disagreeing with me, you're attacking who I am.

DeJah: Mm. Because party has become person. Yes. Yeah.

Joe: It's no longer a thinking man's game. It's a, who's the victim, who's the perpetrator?

I feel like the whole thing's just. Entertainment value. Well, that's

DeJah: what it's been made. That's what Trump has made it. Politics wasn't something everybody didn't give a shit about. It was boring. Right? Yeah. It used to be just boring, boring need. That's until Trump. Trump came down that escalator.

Joe: We need to go back to when politics was boring.

I

DeJah: wish that escalator had stopped just right, right there. Like just his come no more. We never even got to, Mexicans are rapists. It was just,

Joe: but unfortunately, I think we would've ended up with the same thing from the Republican party, even if it wasn't Trump. Absolutely.

DeJah: We're we're on the trajectory to be manipulated by social media.

Yeah. They were on the [00:55:00] project that this has been, this plan project 2025 was being written long before Trump decided. They just decided to use him. He was an appropriate platform that people were going to flock to. Like it's an old playbook, but, um, unfortunately here we are unfortunately playing out and we've done it twice.

Mm-hmm.

Joe: There's so much misinformation. Correct. And so people are so distrustful.

It's just

Jen: you don't know what clips are being put, how and where together and splice together and audio and AI and Jesus Christ. Well, this is

DeJah: how we ended up with the President of the United States believing that Portland was a war zone. Yeah. Because he saw a video of an old

Joe: protest. Because the president, I think, is a guy that thinks that anybody disagrees with him is an a personal attack,

DeJah: Don't be

Joe: like that.

DeJah: Well, yeah, but that's, I mean that's, that's hard to say, Wayne, in a world of where podcasters are, are Walter Cronkite.

Right. You know,

Joe: they're the like the only ones that, and it's hard to know who to listen to or who's facts. Yes. But I think what you can talk about Hey, we're probably not that far off.

DeJah: Yes.

Joe: People.

DeJah: And satire is absolutely necessary. I'm gonna go ahead [00:56:00] and give another shout out to Gavin Newton press office. Absolutely. Fucking epic. Go ahead, go at it. Let's, you know. Yeah. Well, yeah. Meet that energy. Love it. Yeah. Love it. Mm-hmm. . Speaking of changing perspective

Jen: Joe is a hot dog, A sandwich?

Joe: Sorry, Jen. Yes.

Jen: I

Joe: don't think so. I've been waiting for this

DeJah: validation for almost a year.

Jen: I would like you to reconsider your I would like lens of change my perspective. Change your perspective. Yeah. I can see how somebody can think of it as See perspective.

Joe: I can see that. I can see that.

Jen: Yes. Oh, what is the last song that got stuck in your head? Ooh,

Joe: what did I put? I think Mr. Blue Sky.

Jen: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Nice. Yeah, that song. It's a great song. I can totally see that getting stuck in your crowd.

Joe: It's just one chord for like two minutes. It's for the audience that does

Jen: not know who sings.

Mr. Blue Sky. Yeah.

Joe: Electric Light Orchestra or OOLE. I don't know the three letters that make that up. Electric light orchestra.

Jen: ELO, electric. ELO. There you go.

Joe: Spelling strong. Hold on. Lemme ask [00:57:00] Chad. GPT, I get it.

Jen: And what is the last thing that made you go?

Hmm? Do you remember what you put?

Joe: What did I put?

Jen: AI Olympics. Oh

Joe: yeah, those are great. Have you seen that?

Jen: No. That's a thing.

Joe: Yeah. So they, they've got these robots that are about four feet tall and they're putting them through Olympic things and like they really, everybody gets so stoked when it can like, go up a stair.

DeJah: Oh, damn. That's funny.

Joe: And they can go down a steep incline. That father

DeJah: achievements. That's hilarious. AI Olympics.

Jen: What are we coming up on? Because this, let's see, we're in 2025, so we should have Olympics next year. Right.

Joe: Summer winters. It's back here, . Summer Olympics are held in Los Angeles. Oh shit. Okay. Alright. 28. Oh, 2028. Yeah. 'cause I remember, I thought it was LA because Snoop Dogg was such a big part of the last one, and I think they're gonna have him be like, John Costas, like play more of a role.

I find I forgot that he was

Jen: in Paris. That is such an entertaining

Joe: [00:58:00] dude. I'm for it.

Jen: I know he is entertaining. He follows that Dollar man. Yep. Smart, smart guy. My, my

Joe: daughter met him in LA and her soul just kind of left her body. That's amazing. I'm sure. I'm sure Snoop Dark stopped and looked at her and like did prayer hands and bowed and she just kind of melted.

Jen: I mean, that's a fair response. Yeah. I thought that's fair. That's fair.

DeJah: Amazing.

Jen: Well, Joe, I can't thank you enough for stepping in and being a responsible adult and being our guest in the last minute, in our type of need. Yes, thank you.

Joe: I hope I didn't rage me to anybody.

Jen: If you did, if you did great.

Whatever. You had fun doing it.

Joe: Yes, I won.

Jen: Um, amazing. No, I feel like I've learned quite a bit about you this. Absolutely. I mean, we show up every few weeks and do this so

DeJah: Well, deja, you know what to do.

Well, I just wanna say, uh, thank you Joe as always, and uh, you know, guys. It's, it's s attire is okay. It's okay to laugh. It's okay to poke fun at things. With that, I say to you, ramble on

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