Ramblings of a Restless Mind

Clips from 012 -13 Ramblings
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Joe Woolworth: [00:00:00] But I feel like when, when we were young, the driver's license was the symbol of freedom. Right. Right. And now we give those, we give kids the symbol of freedom at nine when we hand 'em a phone.

Yeah. But we tell 'em no to everything else. Like, we wanna complain about, like, I grew up and I would ride my bike and then I'd come back in dark. But we don't let our kids do that crap. Right. Yeah. So their only bit of freedom is that stupid glowy box. Mm-hmm. And the, and the phone is.

Christopher R. Hicks: Far more freedom than just like being able to drive away.

Yes. It's way more freedom. There's so much more, it's like here's

Joe Woolworth: absolutely everything, everything in the world. It's an escape, but

Christopher R. Hicks: other than you can drive to the next town over. Right.

DeJah Debon: But I think, I think the

Joe Woolworth: solution is like, we gotta give, we gotta give kids more freedom back so that the phone is less appealing.

[00:01:00]

Jen Bordeaux: , consumption culture, I guess that's, that's where we are. It's a lot.

DeJah Debon: It is a lot. That's why I can't do it. 'cause I get.

Jen Bordeaux: I get

DeJah Debon: overwhelmed. Yep. Really? I get overstimulated.

I mean, there's so much in it and I am,

Jen Bordeaux: well, and I, I mean like, and, and I don't even know, like having kids with like screen time and stuff because now kids are just born with screams in their faces. I gave

DeJah Debon: up trying to fight it. 'cause you

Jen Bordeaux: can't fight it. Yeah. Like, I can't imagine that battle.

Christopher R. Hicks: Yeah. We, you, we try really hard and, and, and honestly we got one.

Mm-hmm. Which is,

DeJah Debon: but in, they're still at nine one. The best thing you can have is just one, when they have their phone, that's a different thing. Yeah. At nine. And you still have control. Yeah. If they get that phone, you're done.

Christopher R. Hicks: Now. [00:02:00] Now having one is

DeJah Debon: more the first part of the, the battle. Right.

Christopher R. Hicks: Because it's just two versus one.

But you know, the consumption thing is just like, I can't keep her away from it at all. Mm-hmm. You know, like, I like video games, I like tv and if I'm doing something she happens to walk through the room. It's just like she's staring at the seat. She's like bumping into walls and stuff. Yeah. Because she can't stop looking at it.

Yep. You know, it's. It's really hard. It's really hard. And, and luckily I got one who likes reading and, and you know, she likes art. She likes, you know, she wants to be an interior designer, so she likes to like draw and the creativity Design. Yeah. But like, that's just luck of the draw at that point. Right.

You know, like having some, a kid who wants to do something other than watch, well my boys used to like to

DeJah Debon: read and then it was the Yeah, it came phone era time. Exactly. And it's, and I feel like it's the addiction to Snapchat. I, I couldn't. It was so, it was such a dividing fight to try to reduce the [00:03:00] screen time.

And I mean, parents are straight up getting killed out here in these streets. Like, you shut off the wifi at your house, literally just happened in Texas. Three, three, like three family members. Whack

Jen Bordeaux: Whack, yeah. Totally stab death as they shut

DeJah Debon: off the wifi. Yeah. Like it is a, it is a real addiction. Now,

Jen Bordeaux: now this is reinforcing my decision that I have never felt the calling to have children.

So

Joe Woolworth: yeah. Watch back Chris. I'm just kidding. Thanks.

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah,

DeJah Debon: no, but like, I'm just saying like with one eye open, they, they're gonna be judged at school. They're, they're having the same conversations. Haven't seen the latest thing, the latest TikTok or Snapchat or whatever. You don't know that. You haven't seen that.

I mean, yeah, and, and my kid

Christopher R. Hicks: is, she, she's just a, just a great kid. She really is. Mm-hmm. And I know she's my kid. And you know, you're supposed to say that we're all biased, but like, she, you know, she's just, I'm kid,

Jen Bordeaux: been around like she's a good kid.

Christopher R. Hicks: And, and, and so like, she doesn't buy into a whole lot of that, like, you know, pure pressure stuff.

Mm-hmm. But I can feel it. I can feel it coming. You know, middle school a coach, we've [00:04:00] gotten to that, we've gotten to that. She's in the third grade. We've gotten to that point where we're like, you know, she's talking about stuff that her kids, you know, her friends are making fun of. And I'm like, that, that kid's got boogers in their nose.

Like, what? Like what are you, why are you letting that kid make fun of you? Like. What I just, and they just can't. And I, you know, I want to go back to the whole like, you know, getting older and like the difference in the, the genres. I'm like, you know, I used to drink, you know, I used to drink water out this, you know, the, the hose in the backyard and punch kids like that in the face.

I literally, I was just like, and now you're gonna let, they've got cameras in front you like, come on. Yeah.

DeJah Debon: I can't teach my kid and give the old whopper socks. Yeah, exactly. Whopper socks. Exactly.

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oof. I, middle school wa I mean, you know, it is tough, right? Like the hormones, the things, you know, and I

Christopher R. Hicks: can't again, but even now, like adding, I can't imagine for girls, I can't even imagine.

But even

Jen Bordeaux: now, adding social media to that and the cyber aspect, like the sexualization, my heart goes out, the sexualization. Yeah. My heart goes out to [00:05:00] kids like, and parents trying to navigate that because mm-hmm. It's because all your, it's an endless,

DeJah Debon: woo. Let's see how the predator can find my child today.

Joe Woolworth: Exactly,

DeJah Debon: Joe. That's what it is. It's.

Joe Woolworth: 20 and 17.

Jen Bordeaux: Okay. So you're not too far removed from, like, how was that experience with you guys and your girls? If you remember, they,

Joe Woolworth: they were, they were pretty good about that. But I feel like when, when we were young, the driver's license was the symbol of freedom. Right. Right. And now we give those, we give kids the symbol of freedom at nine when we hand 'em a phone.

Yeah. But we tell 'em no to everything else. Like, we wanna complain about, like, I grew up and I would ride my bike and then I'd come back in dark. But we don't let our kids do that crap. Right. Yeah. So their only bit of freedom is that stupid glowy box. Mm-hmm. And the, and the phone is.

Christopher R. Hicks: Far more freedom than just like being able to drive away.

Yes. It's way more freedom. There's so much more, it's like here's

Joe Woolworth: absolutely everything, everything in the world. It's an escape, but

Christopher R. Hicks: other than you can drive to the next town over. [00:06:00] Right. But again, ironic, it's

DeJah Debon: wild, ironic. It's everyone. It's not just everything. It's everyone. Exactly. But I think, I think the

Joe Woolworth: solution is like, we gotta give, we gotta give kids more freedom back so that the phone is less appealing.

That means, well we gotta make our society a little safer for our kids to be able to go out

Jen Bordeaux: and maybe not get shot's. Like where do you start with like, just because society is. Move

Christopher R. Hicks: my, my mom called the cops on me multiple times. 'cause I was just like across town, making out with the neighbor girl. Like, you know, you know, I was just not around.

Yeah. And you know, the like cops, three Benson police officers out looking for me, you know, one of 'em

Jen Bordeaux: on a horse. Yeah, exactly.

Christopher R. Hicks: You know, but, but I didn't have, you know, if I had a phone, she could've just text me and be like, where are you? Yeah. You know? Yeah.

DeJah Debon: That's crazy. If I didn't, I mean, I needed to come home by dark.

Yeah.

Christopher R. Hicks: When the street lights come on, you come home. Yes. That's exactly what I was,

Jen Bordeaux: I would be running over the street when the lights were coming on, like throwing myself into the yard. But I was here. That's [00:07:00] exactly right. I had the hand touch. Yeah, exactly. On the property line. Exactly. But you couldn't keep us inside like we wanted to be out.

And now the world is such a scary spl pay spl place. I just saw some woman

DeJah Debon: put out a notice in her neighborhood to the neighbors like that her kids were gonna go play ditch. And that she was advising them. Yeah. That this was gonna happen. What is Ditch

Christopher R. Hicks: Ding Don Ditch Ding Ditch. Oh, ding Don Ditch.

Yeah. Ding Don Ditch. Yeah. And she was telling people, like she was telling them, defeats the purpose of ding dong ditch.

Jen Bordeaux: Right. But at least when they get to, the kids have to have the get to have the experience right. Safely. But

DeJah Debon: it leads me into the, like how bizarre of a world of social media that we're in that one.

I mean, most people know what it is. And if it happened to you, you'd know what happened. I mean Right. That's like, I mean, doorbell rings, you look up, there's no one there. You hear giggling behind a tree.

Christopher R. Hicks: Yeah. That's all as well. It's like, I'm gonna tepee your yard. Yes. But you [00:08:00] provide the teepee. Yes. It like you, you give it to me and I'll put it in your yard.

Which it takes away from the

DeJah Debon: freedom Exactly. Of the kid that the mom had to jump in. Tell the whole neighborhood Yeah. The kid's business. There ain't no freedom in that when your kids Yeah. It's

Joe Woolworth: not their idea anymore. Yeah. My, my daughter is the organizer of the 17-year-old is the organizer of Senior Assassin.

You get familiar with this game that they play in high school? Yeah. No, it's a water gun fight. Yeah. But it's like a $10 buy-in and there's, this is a $700 prize and the school is like, don't do it. The cops hate it. Mm-hmm. And my daughter's the organizer. Yes. Nice. And I'm like,

Jen Bordeaux: love that for you. Yeah.

Joe Woolworth: I don't mind it.

Yeah. I mean, it's a game. It's freaking water, guns. Calm the heck down.

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Woolworth: But so they're doing a bracket system and we're out to dinner as a family. And you know, brackets are tricky, Uhhuh 'cause there's always a bye team. And like Yeah. And so there's all this hate going on. They're like being mean, like mean girl mean talking mean stuff because they didn't like the way the brackets went.

Mm. Yeah. And my wife was like, just [00:09:00] well-meaning mom stuff. Right? Like, well just tell 'em it's not okay to bully and you're gonna kick 'em outta your game. And she looked at her like, I can't do that mom. Yeah. That's sucks. They just get 10 times worse. That's not how this game is, that's not how this game works anymore.

Christopher R. Hicks: There's a there's a Bob Burgers episode with the cheese. Yes. The, where they're throwing cheese at each other that's like that as the

Jen Bordeaux: cheese slices.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. But we don't, we don't, you're, I mean, we just don't see kids doing goofy stuff anymore. No, no. Like we train, I mean like we trained it out of 'em. Yeah.

No. But, but also

Christopher R. Hicks: little adults now.

Jen Bordeaux: But a part of, of. And this is where we are in society too. Another aspect of like when you said, okay, harmless water gun fight, but my mind immediately went to catch a wrong corner shadow. Somebody's gonna think that's an actual gun, right? And then we got a bigger issue and, and then, you know, that's part of, and listen, I'm not anti-gun rally people, but I am pro safety.

And so like, it is just, it's just another unfortunate, that's just another aspect of where we are. I'd rather

DeJah Debon: not have the helicopters over my house again. Like, because,

Jen Bordeaux: well, you're, I, [00:10:00] both of y'all are ITB, so you probably got helicopters. It was legit when you're like, well fuck, they're

Joe Woolworth: here all

Christopher R. Hicks: day

Jen Bordeaux: shit must be

DeJah Debon: really

Christopher R. Hicks: going down.

I was just sitting in my backyard and they're like shining lights. Well, the, the thing is I'll

DeJah Debon: have my kids like messaging me from the school like. Ha ha ha. This stupid motherfucker brought a gun here trying to like, and I'm like, my kids, how are you laughing? I'm, I'm freaking out, man. Like, happened multiple

Joe Woolworth: times.

Didn't care. It's like kid brought a gun and shot a toilet with an idiot. I'm like, we, I'm like, oh my God, in your car and come home.

Christopher R. Hicks: I gotta,

Jen Bordeaux: yes.

Christopher R. Hicks: I've got a 9-year-old and she's like trying to explain to me why she's like, ducking in a corner of a classroom and it, it just, it, it blows my mind. Yeah. Like, I mean, I grew up in rural North Carolina.

Like we had a kid who was suspended 'cause he brought a shotgun to school because he'd been deer hunting like that morning. And it just, in his truck, it was like in his truck, truck had a rack in my parking lot in my high school. Nobody was, nobody was worried about that stuff. And now I got a [00:11:00] 9-year-old and, and she's like, you know, why am I ducking in this corner?

Like, why do they putting these pods in my classroom for us to hide? Like. It's mind boggling to me. And I just, I don't it because Billy's

DeJah Debon: dad decided the ar was what was going to make his ed go away. Well, yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And he didn't lock it up. Yeah. And he taught his son, his teacher voice. It's her like her ASM

Jen Bordeaux: voice.

Like we were all just like professor voice, like, you know, like before you start I should be like, you should edit it, don it be like in a teachable moment by Deja. And then

Christopher R. Hicks: Deja tells us why the second amendment is weird. Yeah.

Jen Bordeaux: Right, right. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's a crazy

Joe Woolworth: world. I wish that it was, it was a simpler answer, but you know, I want the kids to have fun.

Mm-hmm. But at the same time, I share all your concerns that you were saying. Like, I made sure she got bright colored guns that didn't look like gun shoes. I actual guns. Yeah. They

Christopher R. Hicks: need orange tips on everything. It's wild. Like

Joe Woolworth: [00:12:00] my, like my little teenage girls, the one that's gonna get shot by the cops. I mean, it's really not.

That's probably not the problem, but the, yeah. You know, I went to go see, I went to go see a musical Mama Mia at the Cary High School. So Good Mama Mia. Yeah, that, that, and it was terrible. I mean, the kids,

anything

Christopher R. Hicks: your kids do at school, it's terrible. I'll tell you like. We know that

Joe Woolworth: I was sitting there just so excited that these kids were outta the house doing something. Yeah. You know, they were, it was like the last thing you could tell the seniors at the last song were crying 'cause we went to the last show.

Yeah. And you're like, oh, you did something good for you. This is great. Yes. You know, they could have been at home watching their phones. Yeah. You know? No, a hundred

DeJah Debon: percent. That's why whenever mine are like, oh, you go someplace. Yes. I'll, I'll take you. Borrow

Joe Woolworth: a car,

Jen Bordeaux: get

Joe Woolworth: outta house, drive phone, fresh air.

Yeah. I, I about do you want an Uber? How do I get you there? Yes.

Jen Bordeaux: Like, I think, I don't know if you had a, well, and I know that you grew up in fucking Wisconsin, Northern dairy farming country. Yeah. So you can probably relate it too, but I, I remember like,

Christopher R. Hicks: you [00:13:00] don't have a lactose allergy that's No thank Jesus,

Jen Bordeaux: Parties for me growing up, it's some ham and cheese in front of your home.

Yeah, exactly. In high school, like, it was like bonfires and like you were out in like nature talking, interacting and drinking.

Christopher R. Hicks: Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I drink a. Billion Zimas in a, in the middle. In the middle of a field. Yes. My gosh. Zima?

Jen Bordeaux: Yes. A Zima with a, a Jolly

Christopher R. Hicks: Rancher in the middle, you know, dropped in it in the middle of a boom.

That on my farm.

Jen Bordeaux: Remember when Zima tried to come back? Woo. I wish they would come back, because now I want a Zima. Oh my God. I a feeling old. I literally

DeJah Debon: just experienced heartburn thinking about the exactly. Off ice. Oh my God. When was the last time you guys got ice? Can I get

Joe Woolworth: a Zantac?

DeJah Debon: Ooh. Oh, right. With that they come hand in hand.

Now it's

Joe Woolworth: pairing. Yes. Right.

Jen Bordeaux: God, I'm sorry, Joe, what were you gonna say?

Joe Woolworth: I don't remember. No, actually I was gonna say I think it's crazy that like Joe wants z we, I think in trying to protect our kids from the stuff that we thought was harmful when we were [00:14:00] kids. And then you look at what they're actually dealing with.

Like, I totally wish my kids were out at bonfires getting drunk. Absolutely. Oh God. As opposed to cowering in the corner. If my 9-year-old wanted to drink a

Christopher R. Hicks: zma, you'd be like, in the middle of a field. Yeah. Please. Also, can

Joe Woolworth: I join? Yeah, but I mean, you watch a show back like like Wonder years when I was a kid, or like when my kids were kids, like, you watch a show like Goldbergs and you just, that's regular teenager stuff.

Mm-hmm. But we act like that's the thing we gotta protect them from. That's just life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? But

DeJah Debon: that's because there's so many predators that shit there know man. Like, I mean,

Christopher R. Hicks: I, I remember being a teenager in the big thing was like Dawson's Creek. Ugh. Like, oh my gosh, my art teenagers are having sex filmed in Wilmington.

Oh my God. They're having sex.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah.

Christopher R. Hicks: Wow.

Joe Woolworth: The audacity.

Christopher R. Hicks: Wow. How, you know, like, I don't know. I can imagine so many things more I. You know, daunting right now. Yes. That I would have to talk to my child about. Yep. And that seems to be the big thing. Yeah. You know, if [00:15:00] we're gonna, you know, full circle this back to politics and Yeah.

You know, like talking to, to kids, well definitely better talk her, talk to her about it before she accidentally has to a, these trouble lot things are like, people just don't want to talk to their kids Yeah. About stuff you, you know, like, oh, there's a, you know, a drag queen reading a book at the library.

I'm, I don't wanna talk to my kid about, let the government handle it. You know, like, like I'd rather tell my kid about these things.

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah.

Christopher R. Hicks: Before, you know, before someone else has to Yeah. Because I don't trust anybody else to do it. But like, you know, it just seems like they just have so much access. To so many other things without us being involved at all.

DeJah Debon: Mm-hmm. Well, and with

Christopher R. Hicks: that, that it's scary, you know, and there's a,

DeJah Debon: there's a good and a bad to that. There's a good side to that because our kids nowadays do not have the same implicit biases that we did.

Christopher R. Hicks: Well, that's true. Yeah. You know? Absolutely. Because they're

DeJah Debon: so, so exposed to everything in everybody and every type of anything.

I love the fact that I didn't have to explain drag queens to like my [00:16:00] kids because they would just pull up a video didn YouTube and already show me like, didn't exist. It was like a, it's a normal thing. I grew up, you know,

Christopher R. Hicks: they, they, they weren't a thing. Maybe not they were, but they were shame, ostracized and run on town.

They didn't exist to me as a child. Maybe

Jen Bordeaux: not a familial or immediate physical environment bias, but I think kids, it seems like we, those of us in this room, and for anyone that is listening that is in their late thirties or early to mid forties, like we're kind of the last generation where we can peace.

Technology. The, the advent we were there for the advent of the internet. Yeah. Yes. Kids, I hope you're not listening. This is not your platform child. Good. Without the internet. Yes. But also, but then like, I think we started to learn to type in like third or fourth grade. I remember just the keyboards, like you just learned like your home, your key letters, you know what I mean?

Like

Christopher R. Hicks: Apple two E's. Yes.

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. And so like, oh, my number [00:17:00] muncher, the little floppy disc put Aw. Number Muer was my jam. Anyway, moving on. So we understand that just because it is on an Instagram post doesn't make it real. Right? Right. And so I think like just this past weekend I, when I was talking to my parents and they would show me this picture they liked, I'm like, oh, that's totally ai.

Yep. And they were like, how can you tell? Yeah. And I'm like. Because it's too perfect, like Right. And that's just a photo. The person has

Christopher R. Hicks: six fingers. Yeah.

Jen Bordeaux: Or like, it's just too, like there's just, you could tell my kids can

DeJah Debon: pick that stuff out, but like my older friends will fall for that stuff. Like a hundred percent.

Yeah. So much. And,

Jen Bordeaux: but then you've also got this culture of younger folks that they've just grown up younger. Did I really just say younger folks? Like that's where I'm at. Okay. The

Joe Woolworth: street youths. Right. The young youth. Youth,

Jen Bordeaux: the youth, young people they hate that have just grown up with all the social media.

And so there's also the algorithm piece to it, right? So maybe in that physical environment, familial [00:18:00] generational biases isn't there, but they're also getting fed. Based off of an algorithm of what they click on or how much screen, how much time their screen stays on a particular picture or the link they click on or whatever.

Do you have any swimsuit ads? Because we're going to a different country Yeah. In a few months for your birthday. That is tropical that I, now I've been looking at swimsuits and so now my Instagram is just full of, and I'm clicking on all of them 'cause I wanna find the right one. Yeah. I'm not going to.

Yeah. Let's be clear. Yeah. Because exist it's not going exist. Exist

Christopher R. Hicks: because it's not on Instagram. You know how many posts I get are that are kind of like ins, you know, swimsuit posts. Christopher, because of my algorithm.

DeJah Debon: Wink, wink. No nubs.

Jen Bordeaux: Honestly, though. Your, your Instagram behavior from what? Like as being friends with you on Instagram.

Like that's when I know you're fired up about something because like you've never Oh, post. Oh, my story is you never post anything on your Instagram. So whenever you put on your, I was like, oh, Chris felt some kind of way Yeah. Feeling some kind of way about this. Yeah. I'm on

Christopher R. Hicks: vacation like in the Caribbean last week and I'm [00:19:00] just like,

Jen Bordeaux: oh, fuming

Christopher R. Hicks: popping off stories.

Yeah. Like Yeah.

DeJah Debon: Man,

Christopher R. Hicks: political things. Yeah. I

DeJah Debon: was, I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry buddy, that you were on vacation. All that shit was going down,

Christopher R. Hicks: you know? And that shit's always gonna go down.

DeJah Debon: Yep. It's so that's why when I travel, I really do fucking unplug and I would get so angry. I was in the Galapagos in January and every hope place I went.

Fucking Trump was on the tv. Uhhuh every hotel, I mean, of South America. Yeah. I'm on an island in the ocean and with the turtle off,

Christopher R. Hicks: and I flew away. I was really proud of myself last week, to be honest. I really was. You know, people were like, we wanna see pictures of you and Margaret and Warren. And I'm like, no.

We, we were really unplug, unplugged and like, yes, I was, you know, I left my phone in the, you know, at the resort every day we were out doing things and I'm just like, trying to be there present. Yep. You know?

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah.

Christopher R. Hicks: But then I'd get, you know, back everything popping off on my social media. Exactly. Story, story, story, story, story, story.

DeJah Debon: It's just

Christopher R. Hicks: [00:20:00] really, yeah. Like

DeJah Debon: just your blood

Jen Bordeaux: pressure injection. When you open that phone, man. There [00:21:00] was a few weekends ago that I had nothing on my calendar, which is rare. A beautiful, I revel amazing in the weekends that that happens. And I also did not turn my TV on all weekend.

Okay. I got lost in two books, thanks to this person to my right. That I'm obsessed with. Anyway, and the, I felt so I was exhausted, like my eyes were tired mm-hmm. From so much reading. But I also and mentally just felt so refreshed because I didn't watch any tv. I didn't scroll social media. Like it was just, but there was that other side that was also like a fomo, like, what did I miss out on in the world?

Yeah. You know, like, it, it just, it's a thing. What

Christopher R. Hicks: were the, what were the books?

Jen Bordeaux: It, so it's the court of thorns and Roses series. Jane Mo. MAS That's, my

Christopher R. Hicks: wife's been super into that. I call it dragon porn. There's

Jen Bordeaux: no dragons. There's no dragons in this one. Magic. The Imperian series is all dragons. Yeah. But yeah.

Yeah. I'm on the fourth book about to get. Mom's about to get started on it. I'm bringing her the first book this weekend. [00:22:00]

Christopher R. Hicks: That's when she, she started out fantasy. That was a couple years ago. And then it's been like a, like a heavy, you know, spiral into all kinds of things, but it's not

Jen Bordeaux: just, listen, not to go down a rabbit hole, because Deja and I could probably talk about, like, have three podcast episodes about these books.

But like, it, it's truly, and Daja told me this when I got started, she was like, the way that she writes, because I, I was texting her as I was reading a book the other night. That one, the four third one in the series. Mm-hmm. And I was like, I need to vi, I want to visually see this, like, the way that she writes, you get a mental image.

Mm-hmm. But it's a battle scene. And so like, the way that she writes and the strategy behind the battle and the way, the way that it's so descriptive that you can see it in your mind, but it, you crave, you feel it then? Yes. Mm-hmm. You crave then to see it, like, you're like, I wanna see Yeah. Like this like.

On a, on a screen. On a screen. Yeah. Like, I wanna see this Avenger style. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's literary artistry.

DeJah Debon: Yeah. Like, it's amazing to, to be able to draw you in full mind, body [00:23:00] your senses. Oh, yeah. So I think, yeah. My, my

Christopher R. Hicks: wife and her friends say they have absorbed those books. Yes.

Completely. I've

DeJah Debon: like, yes. I, I own it physically. I have it also on my kiddo. Oh, there, I also have them all in Audible.

Jen Bordeaux: I have, yeah. Oh yeah. Like, I think it's gonna be our platform to be like, Sarah J. Moss, make this happen. Please. Yes. It's my, it's, it's my Make-A-Wish foundation, which I please

Christopher R. Hicks: make this happen.

It's, it's a frequent joke in my house about dragon porn. Oh yes. You know, because Oh yeah. Wait until your

Joe Woolworth: daughter start reading it, man.

Christopher R. Hicks: Oh, jeez. So my daughter, we are, we're doing the Percy Jackson the second set now. Nice. The, the like Roman set now. Mm-hmm. But the reason I ask is, 'cause, you know, like I said, I, I love to read.

I don't do it that often. We were on vacation last week and I read James by Perl Everett.

DeJah Debon: Oh, okay.

Christopher R. Hicks: Who? Perl

DeJah Debon: what

Christopher R. Hicks: a great Namel Everett. Yeah. And so basically it's like I had to be an author. He's also gotta be British, so he's like a, a professor, I think it's [00:24:00] U-S-C-U-S-U-C-L-A maybe. But he's a professor of like African American studies.

Okay. And he wrote this book and it basically, it's Huck Finn. But from the perspective perspective, I thought you were

DeJah Debon: about to go. Well, it's a James Baldwin biography. Like, oh, okay. But so it's from

Christopher R. Hicks: the perspective of Jim, you know, like the escaped slave. Oh, wow. And so, like, I'm reading this thing, I'm in the Caribbean where, you know, like, nobody, please don't tell me you're in the

DeJah Debon: middle of reading this book and then you get the notification that Trump was going after the African American Museum.

No,

Christopher R. Hicks: no, no. Well, so I'm, I'm Chris Rage. I'm, I'm in Belize where, you know, the pop, the population is black. Yeah. And, but they're not. They're not slave black. Right. They're just there and they were, you know, like British subjects. But, you know, it was kind of like, we didn't have a whole lot to offer the British, so they didn't really care.

And so I'm reading this and, you know, I'm, I'm like observing kind of what's happening at home and I'm like, my God, like [00:25:00] how do I, you know, make this relate and I can't do it. Yeah, yeah. Anymore, I can't do it. You know, it's, but it's so good, it's so good to like, see it from a different side mm-hmm. Of things, you know.

Oh, absolutely.

Jen Bordeaux: Those voices need to be amplified. Yeah, absolutely. Like one of my books that I'm still obsessed with that. While unfortunately it came from the George, the George Floyd event being unfortunate, it led to me reading Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man by Emmanuel Acho and mm-hmm.

That book, every single person like that needs to be a mandatory curriculum. Yeah. Like it is because it is truly, which I know will never happen banned Jim. Actually, we don't have mandatory book curriculum won't ever happen. No, I know that won't ever happen, but it is, and I actually think recently because of recent things going on in the world, he's been catching shit about his book.

Like he just, just, just in a post about like thinking everybody that had read it and everything, because he's been getting some hate around it, unfortunately. But [00:26:00] unfortunately not surprisingly. Right. Shock that shock. Yeah. But it is such a, like as reading it, I just. It is so aptly named because as you're reading it, you truly feel like you're having a conversation with him.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah.

Jen Bordeaux: And the, the explanations, the history behind things like you, the understanding, and it just probes more questions. And it was just such a motivational factor for like, for me to do better and to open those conversations period. And to stay curious. And, and, and, you know, and, and it is just, it was, oh man, that book makes me wanna read it again.

What a concept

DeJah Debon: to Well, that's the thing with James, stay curious because you haven't just been force fed everything that you'll ever need, and you never have to ask any questions.

Christopher R. Hicks: Exactly. Well, that was the thing with James is like, one of the pri, you know, like primary themes of that book is that, you know, he talks differently to other slaves mm-hmm.

Than he did to white people. Like he Yeah. He talks like a normal person Right, right. To, to other slaves. Yeah. And then he, he like, has to put on [00:27:00] this thing to, you know, white people and like, you know, like. That sucks. Why do you have to do this? Like, why do you have to pretend to be somebody else? And it's, the whole theme of the book is like mm-hmm.

You know, pretending to be survival, you know? Yeah, yeah. Because, well, maybe that still happens to stay other people feel comfortable. It's wild. Yeah. And it's still a thing

Jen Bordeaux: today. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's, it's, oh, that's a whole other, yeah. We don't have for that. Nope. Oh God. Yeah. Nor nor do we need to be the sole voice in that, let's be honest, to be there.

Christopher R. Hicks: Probably, probably not our job.

Jen Bordeaux: No, no,

DeJah Debon: no, no. As as the group of white people sitting here. Right? Yeah. That's not our job. We, we acknowledge, absolutely acknowledge not only our, our lack of melanin, but I will support level of Yeah. I

Christopher R. Hicks: will support anyone who can do that well,

DeJah Debon: right? Yes. Yes.

Jen Bordeaux: Bless man. Hashtag wow.

We have gone on down some. On some tangents here. We rambled. We rambled and we did. Yeah, but you know what we are, we what we still need to, to talk about a little bit here. [00:28:00] Yes. And Chris, I gotta be honest, I was asked this in the last recording of where this question came from and I, I truly think it was because of me.

Yes.

Christopher R. Hicks: Yeah. Hundred percent. You know what

Jen Bordeaux: question I'm about to ask on June? I do,

Christopher R. Hicks: yeah. It was my question

Jen Bordeaux: and I'm gonna have you answer before I, I

Christopher R. Hicks: It's a hundred percent add a sandwich.

Jen Bordeaux: Is a hotdog a sandwich?

Christopher R. Hicks: A hundred percent.

Jen Bordeaux: What?

Christopher R. Hicks: Yes, a hundred percent lies.

Jen Bordeaux: Lies. No, I'm just kidding. So

Christopher R. Hicks: 100%.

Jen Bordeaux: I'm gonna paint the picture here for the audience since this is audio only.

But I am holding in my hands. Deja brought this to me today because she loves me. It is a Dotson that is in a hotdog bun and has a squirm of ketchup. Squirm. Is that a, is that a word? Squirm. Squirm, yeah. Srm, squi squiggle. Squiggle of ketchup. I drizzle if you will. Drizzle. Yeah. And it's magnetic so I can like adhere like paperclips.

Yeah. It's, it's a desk thing and it has a bone shaped like sticky note Yeah. Situation in its mouth. And she made a collar [00:29:00] for it and she put a name on the collar and to I call you Topher. It's a thing. Sorry, I can't just call you Chris. It's alright. That also stemmed from, it's weird, but it's okay.

Yeah. The people deja didn't know when I told her the story of why I called you Topher. And it was a whole conversation about how there's Christopher and the only person I ever knew as Topher was Topher McGuire Uhhuh. And, and I was like, oh yeah, that is a name for, and she was like, I've never thought about that.

That's another name for someone named Christopher.

Joe Woolworth: It really is. But yeah, we good. So

Jen Bordeaux: it stuck anyway.

Joe Woolworth: I just put that together for the first time, by the way. Okay, welcome. Just now. Just now when you said that. Okay, so days you put a collar

Jen Bordeaux: on it and Chris, what is the name on the collar

Joe Woolworth: sandwich?

Jen Bordeaux: Yes. So she is feeding it While she disagrees, Uhhuh so strongly that a hot dog is not a sandwich, she has given me a paper weight and paper clip holder of a wiener dog in a hotdog bun with the name sandwich.

And I love you that that's the only way it's

DeJah Debon: a sandwich.[00:30:00]

Christopher R. Hicks: Organize your things over here.

Jen Bordeaux: My,

Christopher R. Hicks: well, I prepared to argue this, so

Jen Bordeaux: I ha so, and I have, I've stated my case and a guess we had on a few episodes ago, Brett, the comedian, Brett Williams she talked about, her answer was if it identifies as such, loved that answer. Nice.

Christopher R. Hicks: Yeah. And I got a thought about that too.

So the, the only, the only response

Jen Bordeaux: person that we have squarely in our camp, Chris, that a hot dog is a sandwich, is Joe's wife. Okay. So it is my goal to get Joe's wife to call in, leave a voicemail, whatever, confirming

Joe Woolworth: her

Jen Bordeaux: agreement with your

Joe Woolworth: physician. Where is your phone's? That's all you need. She's asleep.

I feel like this gonna be a, this is gonna be an epic argument. Yes. Present us this. Need some music. This

Jen Bordeaux: your hot dog is, let's go.

Christopher R. Hicks: Alright, let's finish.

Jen Bordeaux: State your case counselor.

Christopher R. Hicks: We don't have any cricket sounds, but we got this. [00:31:00]

Jen Bordeaux: No doubt.

Christopher R. Hicks: So my thoughts is a hotdog a sandwich One. The first thing is, is the hotdog corporation, you know, the big hotdog

Jen Bordeaux: mm-hmm.

Christopher R. Hicks: Has said that hotdog has transcended being a sandwich in it's its own thing. Mm-hmm. But who decides that? Who says a hot dog has become its own thing? Who says a taco has become its own thing? Who, who gets to decide that? Right. So if I said to you, I'm sandwiched between two things. If I'm a hot dog and I'm between two hot dog bunts, am I not sandwiched?

DeJah Debon: I don't. Usually two, use two buns.

Christopher R. Hicks: If you were, if I took two buns and put them on either side of you, deja, you would say you would

Jen Bordeaux: be sandwich. I'd

Christopher R. Hicks: sandwich between these two.

Joe Woolworth: You would be

Christopher R. Hicks: hot [00:32:00]

Joe Woolworth: between these two bun. Technically, I think Deja would agree. If he took two separate hot dog buns, then I won, then I would, and you got me

Jen Bordeaux: in.

Joe Woolworth: No,

Christopher R. Hicks: she's hot dog apparently. I dunno.

Jen Bordeaux: Hot dog. DIA's platform lies on the cut of the bread,

Christopher R. Hicks: the cut of the bread, the separation. So the, and that's my issue with the hot dog. Right? So if I take two pieces of bread mm-hmm. And some ham and cheese. Mm-hmm. And I put them on top of each other. That's a sandwich.

Mm-hmm. If I take a hot dog bun and I put a hot dog in between it, you think that's not a hot, not a sandwich. Now, if that hot dog bun were to just happen to become separated

DeJah Debon: mm-hmm. Then it becomes, is that

Christopher R. Hicks: no longer a hot dog? Is that a sandwich now? Is it, is

DeJah Debon: it still saturated together by its drippings in the bottom?

Well, that's a melt and a conglomeration, but that's the whole

Christopher R. Hicks: point of a sandwich is it's two pieces of bread

DeJah Debon: because it's sitting at a saturated,

Christopher R. Hicks: you know, taking up the, the sauce and the meat and the cheese or whatever the fillings are. I guess it, the

DeJah Debon: geometry of it, which exactly [00:33:00] is so,

Christopher R. Hicks: is a, does it, does it fail to become a hot dog when the bun becomes separated?

DeJah Debon: Does it, that's the main question. Fail to become a hot dog when the bun becomes separated. I'm gonna go with its original form was its intentional label.

Christopher R. Hicks: How it identifies. Yes.

Jen Bordeaux: Alright.

Joe Woolworth: Thank you Brett. Alright, thank you Brett.

Christopher R. Hicks: Thank you Brett. Alright, so we're going with however the hot dog identifies.

Alright, well, you know, I don't know how the, the hotdog identifies other than how Deja identifies it on his behalf. Did you know there's

DeJah Debon: a podcast where they discussed this?

Christopher R. Hicks: I did not know this. We

DeJah Debon: learned this last episode.

Christopher R. Hicks: This is the only podcast I listened to.

Jen Bordeaux: Good answer. Yes, that's wrong, but good.

It's false, but good answer.

Christopher R. Hicks: It's not false.

Jen Bordeaux: Yes, apparently there is a podcast called, is a Hot Dog, A Sandwich where they talk about all these things about food. Like, is this, that, is this, and it's all about food.

Christopher R. Hicks: So is a hot dog closer to a sandwich or is it closer to a taco? Which one is it? I would go the

DeJah Debon: [00:34:00] sandwich because the taco is typically made of a corn.

Tortilla show where the bread, well what about a

Christopher R. Hicks: flour tortilla show? I mean, is a hot dog closer to a tortilla? No, we're

DeJah Debon: talking about the glutenous of gluten eat. Okay. All of the gluten must be involved.

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. Oh my goodness. I don't have to explain myself. I think a hot dog is a sandwich. I agree. Fuck you.

All the, don't I say that most lovingly, Tim. It's a, it's a, it's a identifies, it's a filling

Christopher R. Hicks: between bread. It's a sandwich.

Jen Bordeaux: So here's the thing I know this is a foreign concept in today's society, but we can agree to disagree. Oh my

Joe Woolworth: gosh. That's the thing. And still love each other. No, we,

Jen Bordeaux: no we

DeJah Debon: can't.

Christopher R. Hicks: I know you guys are burned.

My burn book

Jen Bordeaux: life canceled. So canceled.

Christopher R. Hicks: Exactly.

Joe Woolworth: Oh my

Christopher R. Hicks: gosh.

Jen Bordeaux: All right, Chris, so thank you for being in my camp. First of all,

Christopher R. Hicks: always.

Jen Bordeaux: It's, it's, it's, it's a, you knew that was gonna happen regardless. Small island. I honestly didn't remember where you sat in the argument. It

Christopher R. Hicks: doesn't matter.

Jen Bordeaux: Fair

Christopher R. Hicks: on your side?

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. [00:35:00] Fair. Huh? Hey, hey,

DeJah Debon: hey.

Listen, I, I also want others on your side. I'll just be right.

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. She's like, I'm just wonder them. It's not fine. It's fine.

Christopher R. Hicks: I feel bad for good and

Jen Bordeaux: somehow, somehow we're still besties with differing opinions. Crazy how that works. Wow. I

Christopher R. Hicks: didn't know that was possible.

Jen Bordeaux: Crazy. Yeah. Alright, Chris what was the last song that got stuck in your head?

Oh my God.

Christopher R. Hicks: Every day. It's Jolene by Dolly part. Oh,

Jen Bordeaux: love it.

Christopher R. Hicks: Thank you. My, my daughter has a friend at school whose name is Jolene. Every time she mentions Jolene, I'm just like, Jolene Jolene's. Jolene, yes. Jolene. And she's like, daddy, don't sing it. And I'm like, I can't open. I don't know what you want from me.

I can't help.

DeJah Debon: Do you know that she just put out Jolene jeans? I have no idea. Dolly. Just put out a linen jeans. I'm a hundred percent gonna this out.

Christopher R. Hicks: So probably the second question is about my time in airports recently. But I was, yeah. So

Jen Bordeaux: what's the last thing that made you go? Mm-hmm. Oh yeah.

Christopher R. Hicks: My time in airports.

But I was just, the way people behave in airports. I was just recently in the Nashville Airport on a [00:36:00] layover from our vacation and, there were, I don't know, 4,000 Dolly Parton, sweatshirts and t-shirts in that place. Yes. And every time we walk by, I look at my daughter, I go, Jolene, Jolene. And she can't, she just can't handle it.

Jen Bordeaux: Airport is some great people watching Absolutely. Best place. And it's also the place that is for like, socially acceptable to start drinking at 8:00 AM I guess.

Christopher R. Hicks: Well, and, and, and to answer what it I, I believe is the next question. You know,

Jen Bordeaux: that was, that was the last question

Christopher R. Hicks: on the

Jen Bordeaux: questionnaire. What made me go, Hmm, yeah.

Yeah. The people behave, it's a

Christopher R. Hicks: way how people behave in the airport. Mm-hmm. And, and, and I will be the first to have a beer with you at eight 30 in the morning. Yep. But you know,

Joe Woolworth: and pay $20 for it throw. Yeah.

Christopher R. Hicks: But, but I'm not gonna throw on, you know, my cookie monster pajama pants and take a nap on the floor.

Like, that's wild. Wild with one leg up

DeJah Debon: and one leg sprayed out across the aisle. It's wild how people

Christopher R. Hicks: believe the airport is like, I mean, it's a lawless place. Like you get [00:37:00] past what is obviously the most like. Security riddled, you know, part of your life. Right. You know, past TSA, but you know, after that, like, you don't have to act like you've never been anywhere before.

Like Yeah. You know? Yeah. I'm not, you know, I'm gonna wear pants, I'm gonna wear a shirt, I'm gonna wear pants. I'm not gonna around the, around this place. Exactly. Exactly. I'm not, I'm not gonna act like I've never been anywhere before. Oh God. But that's how, that's how people are at the airport and it drives me crazy.

Jen Bordeaux: Just, I think, I think speaking of airports and behavior, my probably craziest airport experience is I was, I had gone to Tampa to hang out with an old college roommate. We, it was the last night there, and we had too much fun, but the right amount of fun, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I missed my flight.

Panicked got rescheduled. I was so hungover, like massively hungover to the point where I was in line to board the plane. [00:38:00] I threw up in my mouth and swallowed it because like I couldn't get away. Oh. Oh, alright. That's rough. That's rough. Yeah, because I was like the next person getting ready to actually get on the plane, so I'm like, I could bail and run to the bathroom real quick.

You had time for that and so it was kind of a superpower

Christopher R. Hicks: nine over here.

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah, it was rough, but the fact that I did not projectile vomit over that entire like airplane terminal pathway thing was You did good. I don't know. I think maybe it was a superpower that's untapped. Yes. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Alright, well, I know you think you're done with your questions there, but apparently you have a, you have a fan in the world.

Do I? You do. Okay. And, apparently she knew you were gonna be joining us. Yeah,

Christopher R. Hicks: probably told her myself

Jen Bordeaux: or I told her it's fine. Chris and I have a mutual, mutual friend and apparently she called in to leave us the thought specifically for you. So take it away, Joe.

Joe Woolworth: Oh. Oh. [00:39:00] We're being fancier now.

Jen Bordeaux: You are.

Christopher R. Hicks: Wow.

Joe Woolworth: I like it.

Christopher R. Hicks: Well, you're back on G 1 0 5. I

Joe Woolworth: think I heard through the grapevine that the infamous Topher Hicks will be there today, so I just wanted to get his thoughts on what the best barbecue was out there. And is it better on the East coast, west coast, in the middle in Texas? I know that we are in North Carolina, so is his thoughts or his thoughts on Western Barbecue versus Eastern barbecue?

Mm, love to hear it. Thanks.

Jen Bordeaux: Ooh, listen, that's a, that's a, I'm super biased. People lose relationships over this argument, so,

Christopher R. Hicks: so she knows the answer to this already. That's a setup one. One is that I don't, I don't try to equate them to each other. Mm-hmm. You, I, I will, I will grade Eastern North Carolina barbecue, Iowa, you know, grade western North Carolina Barbecue.

I'll grade Texas, Kansas City, St. Louis. [00:40:00] I've, I've had 'em all.

Jen Bordeaux: Mm-hmm.

Christopher R. Hicks: You know, in, in terms of each other. But to answer the question, Eastern North Carolina barbecues the woo

Jen Bordeaux: vinegar. Yes, for sure. Yes, for sure. And I know the best place,

Christopher R. Hicks: which is which is Grady's barbecue. Ooh, where is this? G-R-A-D-Y apostrophe s It is in Dudley, North Carolina.

Oh, snap. Okay. It is a completely nondescript. Cinder block building. Shackle place. Yeah. Cinder block. Oh, that's what It's the best in the middle of nowhere. My favorite

Jen Bordeaux: here is old time.

Christopher R. Hicks: Old. Old time is incredible as well. It was

Jen Bordeaux: bee's barbecue in Greenville for me, man, that bee be bees is

Christopher R. Hicks: incredible, but I, I'm telling you, grad's is in dud.

It's right outside of Goldsboro, right outside of Wilson. It's, it's, you know, maybe 20 minutes outside of Goldsboro. You will never, ever see it unless you know exactly where you're going.

DeJah Debon: Yeah.

Christopher R. Hicks: You could drive past it, not know what you're doing. Not even doing though. It's cinder black building and it's like spray painted with a, you know, a, a pattern, you [00:41:00] know, grad's barbecue on it.

Yes. Best I've ever had. And it, and it's also the best fried chicken I've ever had. Oh, I was just gonna ask about the cornbread. I don't, I don't even know about the cornbread. I, I, he's like, I don't

Jen Bordeaux: make it that far. I, I don't make it past the proteins.

Christopher R. Hicks: It is incredible. Yeah. But, but then, you know, even beyond that, I, I love it.

I love this stuff so much. I'll get into. You know, what's the best of what they serve. Mm-hmm. You know, barbecue chicken, I really love Stevenson's Barbecue, which is outside of Benson and Johnston County. Mm-hmm. You know, if you want good barbecue chicken there, they cut it on the little rotisserie and it's just drip it on itself the whole time.

You know? You can really, really get into it. But, you know, as far as Eastern North Carolina goes, it's Grady a hundred percent.

Jen Bordeaux: It's, I haven't had some solid, like, super local barbecue like that in a long time. And I think like, the, so in Nightdale here in North Carolina, there is a place called Prime Barbecue.

Mm-hmm. That is very well known and it is delicious, but it is [00:42:00] Texas style barbecue. Yeah. Which is very different than like Eastern North Carolina style barbecue that we're talking about. And it is so good. Yeah. Like it is very, it's one of those places that like. It opens at like 11 or 12, and there's already a line like way before it opens, and then once they sell out of their stuff mm-hmm.

It's done. Like, it's not like a, they, it's not a mass produced kind of place. And there's actually the nonprofit I was talking about the couple, or last episode the, the owner pla slash chef of Prime Barbecue, he's donating a, like a masterclass like barbecue thing for the safe child gala to like nice, best nice kind of thing.

Yeah. But, but it's very different. It is much more that savory, thicker, sweet barbecue sauce. But, and it is, it's different. But to me that's not barbecue. That's like, that's like ribs or that's, you know what I mean? Like

Christopher R. Hicks: Yeah. Just like we're gonna a ketchup base that they, I think we're gonna really run outta this.

So, you know, you've got you know, [00:43:00] ed, who was the chef that they brought into the pit.

Jen Bordeaux: Mm-hmm. You know,

Christopher R. Hicks: like. These guys who were just like staying up all night, cooking whole HODs. Mm-hmm. You know, you know their family's property and now it's, it's very corporate. Right? Yep. You know, like you gotta get 18 of these things out a day.

You're, you're really gonna run out of that. Yep.

Joe Woolworth: Mm-hmm. You

Christopher R. Hicks: know, to be able to go and buy. Right? Sure. You know, like if I want to go and do that in my backyard, I can do it. But you know, as far as like you go and buy a plate of that stuff, you are not gonna be able to do that much longer, I don't think.

Jen Bordeaux: No, and I think like, I, I didn't, my first introduction to the ar to the argument, and there's a t-shirt that is in, that you can get in Raleigh, North Carolina area that is the state of North Carolina and that it is divided and like the west has tomato and the east has vinegar.

Yeah. Because it is, is, it's a hot debate here and I didn't even know since I grew up in eastern North Carolina, I didn't even really know what, like, what the difference was until I went to college at Appalachian State Appalachian, not Appalachian [00:44:00] corners. Who

Joe Woolworth: said that

Jen Bordeaux: when sports announcers say it, my dri drives God.

I literally have a t nail T-shirt that has the like fantic phonetic pronunciation of never Appalachian, I know. Makes my skin crawl anyway. I went, I remember going to like the food hall there on barbecue night and it was, I was like, what the fuck is this? And it was Western style, so it was tomato base.

And I was like, you heathens, what? What are you, is wrong with you? You know? And so that's when I was like, oh, there is a difference. And that's when I, yeah, that was my first raw introduction to that whole situation. But it's a thing. It's a thing. And then Texas is this whole other barbecue saga. Well, it's really

DeJah Debon: funny 'cause whatever, you know, where I, where I'm from near the, you know, Canadian border barbecue is, you know, hot dogs and burgers on the grill.

Yeah,

Christopher R. Hicks: yeah. There's

DeJah Debon: no pork involved. We don't have pigs where Come from garbage.

Jen Bordeaux: Yeah. A what?

Christopher R. Hicks: A garbage plate. A garbage plate? Yeah. What? No. Okay.

Jen Bordeaux: No, no. Not a, [00:45:00] I'm like, what is this? I don't know what that is. We'll, we'll come back to that one another time. Yeah, don't worry. I've never heard of that. Okay, well, I dunno about you guys.

I'm hungry now. No shit. I'm starving.

Joe Woolworth: I was just thinking about how I'm gonna get barbecue,

Jen Bordeaux: right? Yeah. Smithfield's your only option. This, this. No, there's one on the way

Joe Woolworth: home. I forget what it's called, but it's. It's right down the street. Yeah. Okay. Get some cookout.

Christopher R. Hicks: They have barbecue.

DeJah Debon: Listen, it's not bad.

They do. Listen when I, it's good in a pinch when I, yes, it is exactly where I go when I'm like, oh, I really run some barbecue. I don't wanna drive anywhere.

Jen Bordeaux: Oh, you know what? I used to always give 'em cookout was a corn dog. Man, they're hush puppies there. Well, you

Christopher R. Hicks: know, you can get the tray. It's a corn dog with two corn dog sides.

Yes. You just get three corn dogs.

Jen Bordeaux: America. Oh, America man. So what do we classify that as like. A Popsicle.

Christopher R. Hicks: Yeah.

Jen Bordeaux: Sandwich. It's not a hotdog. Is it a popsicle? It's a pops a room.

Christopher R. Hicks: Temperature. Popsicle. Yes.

Jen Bordeaux: Got it. Microphone. I don't know.

DeJah Debon: My breaded meat stick. Yes.

Jen Bordeaux: Yes. Oh, man. [00:46:00] Okay guys, thank you so much. We have gone in all spiderweb of conversation here, all different directions.

And that's what this, we

DeJah Debon: rambled. We rambled. That's true. Yeah. If ever there was, I was worried.

Jen Bordeaux: A definition of, of rambling. We nailed it with, with our situation here. Never a problem. No, no, not at all. So Chris, thank you so much. Of course. Joining us here, enjoyed it so much. Thank you for your, your leadership in the family law world for your advocacy of.

Equality in every aspect of it. For your

DeJah Debon: decency as a white man. Thank you.

Christopher R. Hicks: That's my whole goal in life. Just to be a decent white man.

Joe Woolworth: What great, what a great t-shirt idea. Decent white, white man. I love, I love it. I want a hat too. Decent white man. Decent white man. White man. I like that. It's not, it's not overshoot.

It's not over. It's not over promising. It's not a great white man. Decent, decent white man.

Jen Bordeaux: Palatable white man. Decent. Well give it. I'll

Christopher R. Hicks: be, [00:47:00]

Jen Bordeaux: I love it. Oh shit, man. That's fantastic. Yeah, I truly, I want a shirt or a hat. This says

Joe Woolworth: Decent white man

Jen Bordeaux: looking. Looking for.

DeJah Debon: Looking for,

Jen Bordeaux: yeah. Wanted decent white man.

Christopher R. Hicks: Keeps going on her bumble.

Jen Bordeaux: Going instinct. Oh lost and found. Oh my God. Then I just

DeJah Debon: had the visual like of extinct animals and decent white man next to the jodo bird.

Jen Bordeaux: Oh. Oh, sorry boys. Goodness. We love you. Generally, yes, generally, but you know, one bad apple spoils a bunch. I'm telling you, there's more than one.

True. Anyway, good times, great times, great conversations. Absolutely. You know, I don't know. Any closing thoughts, Chris? Joe Deja, anybody? Everybody.

Joe Woolworth: My decent white man t-shirt line is coming out and available on my Etsy.

DeJah Debon: Looking forward, looking forward to the release I'm

Christopher R. Hicks: getting, I'm getting [00:48:00] 10% of that.

DeJah Debon: Yes.

Christopher R. Hicks: Joe doesn't know it yet, but I will be getting to you getting

Jen Bordeaux: post contracts very soon, Joe. Fabulous. It'll be on my firm letter. Oh, he said, hold on. Yes. What's happening? Oh

DeJah Debon: my Lord. Keep going.

Jen Bordeaux: Are you sure? Yeah. We're dealing with some fake grass over there. You okay

DeJah Debon: man? Assaulted by greenery. I'm showing you guys my t-shirt line.

White

Jen Bordeaux: man. He has a already gentlemen, but the shirt I feel like needs to be white.

Joe Woolworth: Irony.

Jen Bordeaux: Yes. And next you have a,

Joe Woolworth: it's a great shirt. Funny. Next you need have like

Jen Bordeaux: the, the, the quote unquote wifebeater, which is a terrible name. Why would that ever a thing? But put that on a wifebeater. Yes. Yeah. Yes. The irony.

DeJah Debon: Oh man. With the highest trucker head. It's gotta be the raised and ceiling mesh back.

Jen Bordeaux: Yes. Oh, he's in BT with it. Front match back. Yeah. So we get a, we're about to get the image. Oh my gosh. This is when we wish it was visual. [00:49:00]

Joe Woolworth: Wait for it. Boy, I, you have seen the new chat GPT tool, but it is not fast. It is not, it is fast. We should be playing the modem dial up song right now. Oh man.

Jen Bordeaux: And then all of a sudden you've got mail. Yes.

Christopher R. Hicks: My god. I used to look at picture decent pictures. Decent white man, Jim and Jameson. Like this?

DeJah Debon: Yes. Oh wow. I don't even know. Just 1, 1, 1 section at a time. Yeah, just one section at a time. Uhhuh. Oh my Lord. Blood dial. And if

Jen Bordeaux: that ca

DeJah Debon: comes with a case of Bud Light, we're set.

Christopher R. Hicks: Oh my God, Miller.

DeJah Debon: Oh

Jen Bordeaux: yeah.

Christopher R. Hicks: Any kinda light domestic. Yeah, we're good. Ies.

DeJah Debon: Oh, sex on a Boat. Definitely some Coors. Throw some Coors on there. Yeah.

Christopher R. Hicks: Mm-hmm.

DeJah Debon: Oh, perfect. Oh man. Some hard love

Christopher R. Hicks: outsiders. Good to wow.

DeJah Debon: All right.

Joe Woolworth: With a

DeJah Debon: freema.

Joe Woolworth: And,

Jen Bordeaux: and, and a pack of Jolly Ranchers. A pack of Joll Ranchers and the the, like the, the fucking Pepsid.[00:50:00]

Can I get some Santec?

DeJah Debon: Just one Zantec. One zma and a pack of Jolly Ranchers. With your

Joe Woolworth: available Now my Etsy. I'm just Etsy. 34 99. 30 90. Decent white man, teacher. Love Etsy. Oh my god. Love it. Your

Jen Bordeaux: Etsy store name should be decent white man. Decent at, decent white man. It does happen

Joe Woolworth: to be. Yes. Lemme love it.

Alright. That's amazing. Purchases domain. Amazing.

Jen Bordeaux: Oh, okay. Listeners, I hope you're having as much fun as we are. And if you're not, I'm sorry. But reach out to us. Maybe you can be a guest and have as much fun as we do. Yeah. So Chris, once again, thank you so much, Joe. Thank you. Thank you for your technical Thank you.

Wherewithal over there.

Joe Woolworth: Button mashing.

Jen Bordeaux: Button button. Mashing at its yes. Finest. Dasia,

DeJah Debon: take us home. Every please feel free to call and leave us a question. Leave us a funny voicemail, leave us an opinion, but don't be afraid to love yourself and you know, we need the poo every once in a while.

Love you guys. Ramble along.
[00:51:00]